See the poll. Scarf would only not rhyme with bath if you pronounced either one or both of them incorrectly. edit: been speaking to rinso, he's infected my spelling
"No, it doesn't." As Vaims, English is not my first language, so I'm not confident enough to shout "DOESN'T!". I think my pronunciation of "scarf" is somewhat American, while I believe my pronunciation of "bath" to be British. Either way the vowels are pronounced, I still can't make the ending consonants to sound alike. It all turns into Barf or Scarth to make it work. Edit: Added the bit from "Either way" to the end. Edit again: Thanks Sarge for pointing out my misspelling.
The only time scarf will rhyme with bath is when spoken in a woeful Dick Van Dyke cockney accent. There is no such word as pronounciation. It is pronunciation. and pedant rhymes with dead ant. That is all.
My colleague speaks like the queen, if you clip off the 'b' and the 'sc' respectively when she says those two words, the end sounds exactly the same. You've been in holland too long, fairy and sam are in asia, KK is swedish, Vaims is a self-confessed Magyar and the less said about Rinso the better. P.S. thanks for picking up on the spelling mistake, see my note in that post now
Ben can't take being wrong. I also suspect he is a racist, if not a nazi. If not the LEADER of the nazis.
Ben's an idiot. Also, taking a scarf doesn't give him a license to not take a bath. They do *not* sound similar.
Thanks Rinso, he may well be, but he isn't the Spelling Bee and linguistics expert. Where [i:70574433f8]is [/i:70574433f8]Buzzfloyd when you need her?
If you had to describe Ben, it would be thus: "Engris is coming to him slowly by slowly" Pity the fool, pity him!
[quote:8179c751c8="Rincewind"]HA! BEN HA! MY 8 votes to 1 makes you a loser. ahahahahhahahahahahaha![/quote:8179c751c8] Nasty, but so true
Ben, it is impossible. Scarf ends on a strong labio-dental fricative where bath ends on a weak dental fricative. Different phonemes. Translation: Rinso is right.
Scarf and Bath don't rhyme. One ends in a soft "th" sound, and the other with an "fuh" kind of sound. You need to make different shapes with your mouth to make those sounds. Then again, I say "bath" with a long a, like an "ah". B-ah-th. The same as in scarf. Did you mean, should it rhyme with something like "baf"? Because that's just accent. And I'm posh. Whatwhat. edit ~ Basically, what CY said, in finger-puppet style.
Fine, you only have yourselves to blame (note that it's quite quiet) http://www.geocities.com/electric_man_08/v003.wav
It still doesn't rhyme, Ben. In "bath" the "th" is pronounced with the tongue between the teeth. In rapid speech the tongue often moves to just behind the teeth, because the "th" is easier to pronounce that way. This leads to a sound that is similar to the "f." Similar, but not the same. What you can also do is put a finger on your larynx. You should feel it move slightly when pronouncing the "th", but not when pronouncing the "f." Another difference. Edit to add: You should even be able to hear the difference in your sound file. I can.
Since I was born and raised in the United States, English is not my native language. However, I utterly believe that scarf does not rhyme with bath. They say that there is no rhyme for "orange", but consider the following poem: These ordinary flowers are boring; geraniums are better if orange. Or then again, maybe not.
[quote:44bb3c8d05="Electric_Man"]Oh no, I'm not falling for your trick to try and make me strangle myself.[/quote:44bb3c8d05] Curses, my evil linguistic schemes are foiled again! [quote:44bb3c8d05="Innkeeper"]They say that there is no rhyme for "orange", but consider the following poem: These ordinary flowers are boring; geraniums are better if orange. Or then again, maybe not.[/quote:44bb3c8d05] Nope, doesn't work I'm afraid. "Boring" ends on a velar nasal (the "ng" sound like in "sing") where orange ends on a alveolar nasal (the "n") followed by a weak palato-alveolar affricate (the "dg" like in "edge"). Isn't linguistics fun?
Scalf does not rhyme with bath, though it may sound similar if you have a pronounced accent from around the London area. This does not include the Queen or the royal family who have an accent all of their own, for them bath is pronounced like the girl's name Beth (short for Elizabeth), so would be even further away from bath - even the southern version baath.
The o in orange is not pronounced like the o in boring. Orange rhymes with "car hinge" (without the h in hinge). Boring rhymes with "door ring".
[quote:cc469117ee="Marcia"]The o in orange is not pronounced like the o in boring. [/quote:cc469117ee] That depends. It is in American English, but not in British English.
[quote:66ca9769fd="Cynical_Youth"]It still doesn't rhyme, Ben. In "bath" the "th" is pronounced with the tongue between the teeth. In rapid speech the tongue often moves to just behind the teeth, because the "th" is easier to pronounce that way.[/quote:66ca9769fd] I've been trying to tell him this on msn, CY. Admit defeat, Ben!
[quote:73f91aaeb3="Delphine"][quote:73f91aaeb3="Cynical_Youth"]It still doesn't rhyme, Ben. In "bath" the "th" is pronounced with the tongue between the teeth. In rapid speech the tongue often moves to just behind the teeth, because the "th" is easier to pronounce that way.[/quote:73f91aaeb3] I've been trying to tell him this on msn, CY. Admit defeat, Ben! [/quote:73f91aaeb3] It's still good practice. I have an exam on this stuff next week. Btw, "car hinge" is also an imperfect rhyme for "orange." "Car" uses a different vowel.
Pff, when you get my ears, you'll understand... [size=9:355a7b60d5]Stupid people with ears that hear things completely different from me... I bet they eat puppies as well, I can never afford to get them...[/size:355a7b60d5]
Ok I hate to stir this up, but.....I'd heard of there being no rhyme for "orange" but I can't actually think of a "proper" rhyme for "scarf" Can anyone else? (we will let CY be the judge, rather than E_M I think!)
[quote:2368a29fb6="Cynical_Youth"][quote:2368a29fb6="sleepy_sarge"]:lol:[/quote:2368a29fb6] Yes, "laugh" as well. [/quote:2368a29fb6] Only to those who "Flatten all the vowels and throw the "r" away"
Sigh...yep! Still the "Proclaimers" quote has reconnected me with the language as it [b:bbd99a1536]should[/b:bbd99a1536] be pronounced *hides*
Bath and scarf do not rhyme... End of discussion, Ben you can choose to lose gracefully or make yourself look like a bigger loser by flogging a dead horse... Oops it appears your already doing that. Stop it. Leave the poor beast alone.
[quote:ba544e030a="Cynical_Youth"][quote:ba544e030a="Marcia"]The o in orange is not pronounced like the o in boring. [/quote:ba544e030a] That depends. It is in American English, but not in British English.[/quote:ba544e030a] I'm American. Maljonic is English. We both pronounce it the same. [quote:ba544e030a="Cynical_Youth"]Btw, "car hinge" is also an imperfect rhyme for "orange." "Car" uses a different vowel.[/quote:ba544e030a] No it doesn't. It's the same vowel. That was my point. People who pronounce the "o" in orange like the "o" in bore are using an odd regional pronunciation.
[quote:5f941af657="Marcia"][quote:5f941af657="Cynical_Youth"][quote:5f941af657="Marcia"]The o in orange is not pronounced like the o in boring. [/quote:5f941af657] That depends. It is in American English, but not in British English.[/quote:5f941af657] I'm American. Maljonic is English. We both pronounce it the same.[/quote:5f941af657] BBC English uses the vowel in "lot" where American English uses the vowel in "thought." I'm not going by what I think here, I've double-checked it using an official phonetic dictionary. Of course, personal pronunciation may vary. [quote:5f941af657="Marcia"][quote:5f941af657="Cynical_Youth"]Btw, "car hinge" is also an imperfect rhyme for "orange." "Car" uses a different vowel.[/quote:5f941af657] No it doesn't. It's the same vowel. That was my point. People who pronounce the "o" in orange like the "o" in bore are using an odd regional pronunciation.[/quote:5f941af657] It's not the same vowel. "Orange" uses the vowel in "lot", where "car" uses the vowel in "palm." The vowel in "car" is even longer than the vowel in "orange."
[quote:22f6816164="spiky"]Bath and scarf do not rhyme... End of discussion, Ben you can choose to lose gracefully or make yourself look like a bigger loser by flogging a dead horse... Oops it appears your already doing that. Stop it. Leave the poor beast alone.[/quote:22f6816164]
Actually, when I think about it, you could make it work by saying [i:466769e462]baaf[/i:466769e462] and [i:466769e462]scaaf[/i:466769e462]. Just as you can pronounce [i:466769e462]thick[/i:466769e462] as [i:466769e462]fick[/i:466769e462], this should work in some local dialects, no? Southern Londoners, correct me if I'm wrong.
Most are talking about the "th" and "f" sounds. Those sound somewhat the same but the only way to make them rhyme is to change the "r" so it would be scaf or barth. If orange were meant to be pronounced like car it should be arange. Silver also has no rhyme.
[quote:4d589f615d="KaptenKaries"]Actually, when I think about it, you could make it work by saying [i:4d589f615d]baaf[/i:4d589f615d] and [i:4d589f615d]scaaf[/i:4d589f615d]. Just as you can pronounce [i:4d589f615d]thick[/i:4d589f615d] as [i:4d589f615d]fick[/i:4d589f615d], this should work in some local dialects, no? Southern Londoners, correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote:4d589f615d] "Thick" is only pronounced "Fick" by Detritus, probably most other trolls (except possibly Chrysoprase when he has a meeting in the Pork Futures Warehouse) and generally stupid people - the sound is totally different - the "th" has the tongue [i:4d589f615d]between[/i:4d589f615d] the teeth, the "f" has the tongue [i:4d589f615d]behind[/i:4d589f615d] the teeth. Orange - neither the "a" in "car" nor the "o" in "boring" are correct - the "o" in "off" is the one - though discussing pronunciation in text form is a bit of a lose-lose situation anyway - we don't know what accents other people are using!
[quote:1f85d2c2e2="Pixel"][quote:1f85d2c2e2="KaptenKaries"]Actually, when I think about it, you could make it work by saying [i:1f85d2c2e2]baaf[/i:1f85d2c2e2] and [i:1f85d2c2e2]scaaf[/i:1f85d2c2e2]. Just as you can pronounce [i:1f85d2c2e2]thick[/i:1f85d2c2e2] as [i:1f85d2c2e2]fick[/i:1f85d2c2e2], this should work in some local dialects, no? Southern Londoners, correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote:1f85d2c2e2] "Thick" is only pronounced "Fick" by Detritus, probably most other trolls (except possibly Chrysoprase when he has a meeting in the Pork Futures Warehouse) and generally stupid people - the sound is totally different - the "th" has the tongue [i:1f85d2c2e2]between[/i:1f85d2c2e2] the teeth, the "f" has the tongue [i:1f85d2c2e2]behind[/i:1f85d2c2e2] the teeth.[/quote:1f85d2c2e2] I am not talking about fictional trolls. And I'd like to get a second opinion on the bit "generally stupid people". Edit: Oh, and yes, I do know how to pronounce the two sounds. I'm not talking about the difference between the two sounds. I'm talking about how certain dialects could shape one sound to be like the other. I think I've got a memory of such a dialect, but I can't pinpoint when I heard it, and English not being my first language I could be mistaken.
It is very common for people of a lesser education to say fick instead of thick, especially when they are talking about intelligence. e.g. "do ya fink am fick or summin'?" to which the obvious reply would be, "Yes, yes I do." but you wouldn't want to be that rude usually. Also, for the most part, arguments about accents and regional pronunciation, rights and wrongs, are total bollox anyway. As long as the person you are speaking to understands what you mean it doesn't really matter. Also speaking a certain way can include you as part of a group, say people who have grown up in and around Hemel Hempstead in England.
[quote:32a0fbcf67="Maljonic"]It is very common for people of a lesser education to say fick instead of thick, especially when they are talking about intelligence. e.g. "do ya fink am fick or summin'?" to which the obvious reply would be, "Yes, yes I do." but you wouldn't want to be that rude usually. Also, for the most part, arguments about accents and regional pronunciation, rights and wrongs, are total bollox anyway. As long as the person you are speaking to understands what you mean it doesn't really matter. Also speaking a certain way can include you as part of a group, say people who have grown up in and around Hemel Hempstead in England.[/quote:32a0fbcf67] Essex girls have their own language! i agree Mal, as long as you can understand enough to get the points of the conversation accross then pronunciation doesn't really matter. (although scarf and bath still don't make the same sound)
[quote:9fe2b6ec2b="Maljonic"]It is very common for people of a lesser education to say fick instead of thick, especially when they are talking about intelligence. e.g. "do ya fink am fick or summin'?" to which the obvious reply would be, "Yes, yes I do." but you wouldn't want to be that rude usually.[/quote:9fe2b6ec2b] Oh, my mistake then, I just thought it was cockney.
[quote:2b906e50a8="Cynical_Youth"] [quote:2b906e50a8="Marcia"][quote:2b906e50a8="Cynical_Youth"]Btw, "car hinge" is also an imperfect rhyme for "orange." "Car" uses a different vowel.[/quote:2b906e50a8] No it doesn't. It's the same vowel. That was my point. People who pronounce the "o" in orange like the "o" in bore are using an odd regional pronunciation.[/quote:2b906e50a8] It's not the same vowel. "Orange" uses the vowel in "lot", where "car" uses the vowel in "palm." The vowel in "car" is even longer than the vowel in "orange."[/quote:2b906e50a8] No. No. No. When I say "orange" I use the vowel in "palm." It is just as long. I do not use the vowel in "lot." The "American English" you have been taught is probably a dialect from the Midwest. I pronounce orange like are-inj.
It's not anything I've been taught. It's what's in my phonetic dictionary as the standard for American English. I am only taught RP (Received Pronunciation) which is the academic standard for British English. American English uses the "thought" vowel and British English the "lot" vowel in "orange."
i have just been around the office with this little conundrum Electric Man you will be glad to know that in South Wales Bath definatly DOES rhyme with scarf. In fact when i asked people to think of a word that rhymed with scarf about 90% of them said bath! So i'm with you electric man
You've no idea how happy I am that someone agrees, I'm not mad, I just have slightly welsh ears! oh...
[quote:1e7a9a412c="Electric_Man"]I'm not mad, I just have slightly welsh ears![/quote:1e7a9a412c]Another signature in the making.
