Sex...

Discussion in 'THE TEMPLE' started by Katcal, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Ok, ok, I mean it in the gender meaning of the word, but I couldn't resist starting a topic with a polemical title :D

    I notice a lot of confusion about gender on this site, (although no-one but Rinso seems confused about themselves, and he's only confused about species) mainly due to choice of avatar or screenname. Avatars can be easily changed, screennames less so, but I don't really see why they should be unless they're offensive in some way.

    Now in our profiles, in classic PhPbb, there's a little option thingy we can fill in or chose to leave empty to indicate gender (Male / Female / Not sure or not telling), and then that can be shown when we post, like our location.

    So, what do you think, guys ? Doormen ? People ? Rinso ?
  2. Electric_Man Templar

    But think how much fun we have finding out! [/very dodgy comment]

    I don't really think it's necessary, though it couldn't harm. I think it would be best (if implemented) to have the option to leave that field blank.
  3. Maljonic Administrator

    I think gender is irrelevant unless there's some reason you need to know, like on a dating site or something. I also like the assumptions people make, and the fun mistakes connected to this.
  4. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Oh I don't know, it's even more fun when someone makes the mistake if it's made obvious beforehand... :lol:
  5. Garner Great God and Founding Father

  6. Human New Member

    Okay, I'm biased here, but NO.

    Seriously, way more fun the other way.
  7. Sir_Gawain New Member

    Nah. Even though I made one of those embarressing and obvious mistakes... :oops: I'm still waiting for someone to mistake me for a guy. ^-~
  8. Human New Member

    Sweetie, I had you pegged for a fangirl the second I saw your avatar. No guy, I don't care how gay, would put that picture of Kurama up. It's a dead givaway.
  9. Sir_Gawain New Member

    Darn it. I knew I should change it.
  10. Sir_Gawain New Member

    How 'bout now, hun? I love Angel. And while we're talking gender.... :lol: :yawinkle:
  11. Human New Member

    Still too female. You positively reek of feminine beauty. And no, I won't tell you what gender I am.

    What, are you waiting to find out so you can hit on me?
  12. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    I don't care if it's tongue in cheek, we've also got a 'keep it to private messages and email' rule about flirting. Don't make me throw a bucket of water over you two.
  13. Human New Member

    Not trying to flirt. I promise. I have this thing about "only in person." And that would ruin my whole mystery.

    All I'm saying is, you don't have to know someone's gender to make fun of them. We don't need an option that limits objectivity. And gender is the first refuge of the small-minded.
  14. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    no, gender is third. skin color is number two, and the first refuge is "they ain't me"
  15. Sir_Gawain New Member

    [quote:66fda10396="Human"]What, are you waiting to find out so you can hit on me?[/quote:66fda10396]

    Actually, no. The whole 'speaking of gender' thing was about Angel. She's male. :lol: If I were going to hit on someone, gender doesn't matter. I'm bi. But from your speech patterns, I'd guess you're female.

    See, garner? We weren't really flirting. No bucket of water needed.
  16. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Aw shucks... **dissapointed about lack of buckets of water being thrown**
  17. Andalusian New Member

    [quote:09c1cc2a99="Garner"]no, gender is third. skin color is number two, and the first refuge is "they ain't me"[/quote:09c1cc2a99]
    :lol: So true.

    *pointless post*
  18. Hermia New Member

    I voted yes. Because I get quite confused enough as it is, and it doesn't matter how many times I find out something, I'm still likely to forget it if there's not a little pink or blue icon to tell me.

    But it's true, the mistakes can be quite funny, so I'm not bothered!
  19. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    [quote:6f823b2c97="Sir_Gawain"]If I were going to hit on someone, gender doesn't matter. I'm bi. [/quote:6f823b2c97]

    unnecessary information that none of us need, and due to past issues it's generally considered that such announcements are more often attention seeking than anything else.

    a simple 'gotcha, we weren't flirting but i'll be sure not to do it in future' would have sufficed you know.
  20. Victimov8 New Member

    I cannot see how knowing someone's gender should be relevant, folks is folks - whatever happens. ;)
  21. Hsing Moderator

    And to add to the confusion, and enjoy it immensely, I've changed my avatar...
    Although I'm probably going to switch back.
  22. Sir_Gawain New Member

    [quote:eafef556e2="Garner"][quote:eafef556e2="Sir_Gawain"]If I were going to hit on someone, gender doesn't matter. I'm bi. [/quote:eafef556e2]

    unnecessary information that none of us need, and due to past issues it's generally considered that such announcements are more often attention seeking than anything else.

    a simple 'gotcha, we weren't flirting but i'll be sure not to do it in future' would have sufficed you know.[/quote:eafef556e2]

    I'm sorry, mother. :lol: It wasn't exactly like I meant it to say; 'please hit on me!' but if it would make people more comfortable, I'll refrain from mentioning my sexual orientation in the future.
  23. Marcia Executive Onion

    [quote:ab2c1ade92="Sir_Gawain"][if it would make people more comfortable, I'll refrain from mentioning my sexual orientation in the future.[/quote:ab2c1ade92]

    I think it's OK to mention when it's actually relevant to the discussion.
  24. KaptenKaries New Member

    [quote:67e497232a="Hsing"]And to add to the confusion, and enjoy it immensely, I've changed my avatar...
    Although I'm probably going to switch back.[/quote:67e497232a]

    I miss your old avatar Hsing! I liked that wine glass and the smile.
  25. Hsing Moderator

    I moved it to another site. It will be back soon, and in better quality, and if only because I have the original copyright on it, while my current J├Ągermonster appearance is stolen. :)
  26. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    [quote:8deb297ee6="Sir_Gawain"]I'm sorry, mother. :lol: It wasn't exactly like I meant it to say; 'please hit on me!' but if it would make people more comfortable, I'll refrain from mentioning my sexual orientation in the future.[/quote:8deb297ee6]

    Your sarcasm is uncalled for and further underscores reasons for concern.

    We've handled discussions on sexuality and even sexual technique without anyone batting an eye lash. Because we're mature adults who can handle a diverse range of topics of conversation.

    We don't go around saying 'I'm bi!' or 'I've got huge hooters' or 'I'm humiliatingly deminished in the manhood department'. There are other pratchett sites where you can go if that's how you like to interact with other people.

    In these parts, we prefer such discussions to be held in a quiet whisper over a candlelit dinner and NOT on the boards where it's attention seeking behavior.
  27. Sir_Gawain New Member

    I don't want to turn this into an argument, but I really don't think 'I'm bi' really goes in the same category as 'I've got huge hooters' or 'I'm humiliatingly deminished in the manhood department'. I'm not talking about a physical charactoristic. I'm talking about a part of who I am. A part of my personality.
  28. Victimov8 New Member

    [quote:8db0617b21="Garner"]'I'm humiliatingly deminished in the manhood department'. [/quote:8db0617b21] :shock:

    ^ That sounds like a good signature...^

    [quote:8db0617b21="Sir_Gawain"]I don't want to turn this into an argument, but I really don't think 'I'm bi' really goes in the same category as 'I've got huge hooters' or 'I'm humiliatingly deminished in the manhood department'. I'm not talking about a physical charactoristic. I'm talking about a part of who I am. A part of my personality.[/quote:8db0617b21]
    You seem to miss the point there: it is not a question of it being a physical characteristic or otherwise. The point is more that we don't announce that sort of personal detail unless it is relevant to the discussion.
    (I have tried to phrase this in many ways, and I can't seem to get it to sound right to myself - No offense is intended)
    What Marcia said...
  29. Maljonic Administrator

    That's exactly it really.
  30. Sir_Gawain New Member

    Fine, fine. I get your point. I can't say I entirely agree with it, but I understand it, and I'll abide by your rules. Though I'm going to have to go by my own judgment as to when it's relevent or not. Don't all jump on me if I make a miscalculation.
  31. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    no one's jumping all over you at all. the sad truth is that you were told politely that it was considered unnecessary and a bit inappropriate, and you were most ungracious in your response.

    you're what, 13? i realize that for the 13-15 age group these days, being bi is a bit like owning a copy of nirvana's Bleech album when i was that age. it's the cutting edge of cool. kind of like smoking for 8 year olds in hastings :roll:

    but, you know what? despite all the research that shows any animal species becomes proportionally more disposed to homosexuality as its population reaches the environment's limit to support it, rising levels of trendy alternative sexuality and earlier ages of sexual exploration still aren't 'cool' status symbols.

    i find a 13 year old kid talking about how she's bi just as dumb as a 24 year old man talking about how many pubic scalps dangle from his belt. if your sexual identity is the key component to how you see yourself and show yourself to other people, then you're no more interesting or noteworthy than someone who can't go five minutes without talking about their italian sports car.

    it's showing off. and it's not showing us anything that's going to impress us or shock us or make us care, really.

    so, we want to make sure you understand that. you're welcome to say what you want around here, but if you say stuff that bores us and annoys us, we're going to let you know.

    do use your own judgement, no one's ever said not to. but if your own judgement constantly fails to comprehend what the general community's into, then don't get snarky if we point it out to you for your own understanding.
  32. Victimov8 New Member

    [quote:00f1cc904b="Garner"]a 24 year old man talking about how many pubic scalps dangle from his belt.[/quote:00f1cc904b]
    [i:00f1cc904b]That[/i:00f1cc904b] is an image I could live without!
  33. Katcal I Aten't French !

    [quote:f6d0f0489f="Victimov8"][quote:f6d0f0489f="Garner"]a 24 year old man talking about how many pubic scalps dangle from his belt.[/quote:f6d0f0489f]
    [i:f6d0f0489f]That[/i:f6d0f0489f] is an image I could live without![/quote:f6d0f0489f]
    I'm just hoping that Garner was speaking metaphorically... :?
  34. Victimov8 New Member

    Me too, but still... :roll:
  35. Sir_Gawain New Member

    And responses like yours are just what caused me to become ungracious in my response, garner! You are automatically assuming I'm saying that I'm bi just to be 'cool'! I'm not saying it to get attention, I'm not saying it because I think the kids at school will think it's 'cool', I'm saying it because it's part of me, and I like to say who I am. Maybe I shouldn't have revealed my age if that means that everything I say is going to have childish and immature reasoning behind it. Maybe that's unfair, but I don't want to be judged by my age. I freely admit that I'm nieve, and maybe I'm less mature than a number of you on this board, but I am mature enough to know that acting something or saying something to be 'cool' would get me nowhere. And I'm hardly a part of teenage mainstream culture.
  36. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    as a rule, no one's going to care how old you are. if you're mature, you're mature. if not, you're not.

    and, two more rules:

    telling teenagers that they're remotely predictable, understandable, or like every other teenager before them is a surefire way to piss them off BUT...

    no one's figured out their sexuality by the age of 13. no one's figured out who they are by that age. no one's grown up by 13, most people aren't grown up by 30, and if they're lucky they've realized that they're just now becoming aware of how ignorant they are about themselves.
  37. Delphine New Member

    Just like Marcia and Victimov8 said, it is fine to mention these things when they're relevant. However, when it is just a random sidenote, it does seem like you WANT people to pick up on the fact and comment on it, which does seem attention seeking.

    You do seem mature, and your age doesn't matter here. Neither does your sexual orientation.
  38. Orrdos God

    i dont know that sexual orientation is entirely relevant to who you are. It jut defines who you want to shag in a broad sense. And I'd like to think that most people are defined by more than that.

    Generally, it's not really the sort of thing you want to shout about though.

    What does it matter what sort of people you want to shag? Does anyone really care?

    I think not.

    Certainly not once the playgrounds been left behind.

    Sexual orientation is certainly a part of you. But it doesn't really have any bearing on your personality. Unless your one of those uber camp gay men.
  39. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    like mclaren?
  40. Orrdos God

    Yes, much like Mclaren.

    I've never seen anyone as flappy as him!
  41. Sir_Gawain New Member

    You know garner, as much as you know about teenagers you should know they hate to be patronized. :lol: You really shouldn't make generalizations. A few hundred years ago, people were having children by the age of thirteen. And I am perfectly aware I know very little about myself. You don't know me, so it's really impossible to tell what I'm like. Can we end this semi-argument we're having now?

    And it affects the way I behave around people, which affects they way they behave around me, doors. Who's Mclaren?
  42. Pixel New Member

    Sir_G - Garner has a very good point that 13-year olds are usually still in that "uncertain" stage - this is not patronizing (although OK, one could call it generalizing, although cases where it would not apply would tend to be at the extreme end of the statistical curve), it is simply a statement of biological fact - your example of thirteen-year-old mothers "hundreds of years ago" does not take into account that they very rarely would have had a choice - "romantic" marriages are a fairly late development - you married who your parents chose, or the boy next door, or whoever had the money - and don't forget that a lot of those thirteen-year-olds would die in childbirth!

    Also, you should not feel that you are being got at because of your age - I was recently slapped down for mentioning aspects of my sex life - and I am 56 years old (and thus allowed to have one - at your age in practically any country in the world (and Camelot) then for legal reasons I hope you were talking theoretically!)

    Edited for spelling
  43. Sir_Gawain New Member

    I was definitely talking theoretically, Pixel. And I did read that conversation you got slapped down in. It kinda made me see where this was going to go when garner got irritated about my post. Things tend to blow out of proportion when some takes arms against something someone said. :roll:

    And I know that most thirteen-year-olds are at that uncertain stage. I'll be fourteen in two weeks (little difference that it is) and I still probably am. I'd elaborate on that, but it probably wouldn't be considered relevant by most people on this board, and one argument is much more than enough.

    So unless anyone has any lingering points, why don't we steer this conversation back into the direction it was originally meant to be in. I have no objections to there being icons that indicate a person's sex, but if they were optional I probably wouldn't use one.
  44. Victimov8 New Member

    [quote:23cd629b9c="Garner"] most people aren't grown up by 30, and if they're lucky they've realized that they're just now becoming aware of how ignorant they are about themselves.[/quote:23cd629b9c]
    33 and counting! :D

    Similar to when all of the people said to me "What do you want to be when you grow up?"
    I don't want to grow up! I still don't know what I want to do, although I am fairly close to it now...
  45. Orrdos God

    [quote:40e3ebccbc="Sir_Gawain"]And it affects the way I behave around people, which affects they way they behave around me, doors. Who's Mclaren?[/quote:40e3ebccbc]

    Mclaren is another poster. We pretend he's gay and call him dale.

    Sexuality only has a direct effect on your personality if your trying to fire into someone. Other than that, it doesn't matter.

    Even then, it tends not to be sexual orientation, but hormones and things.

    Sexual orientation is a large brush stroke. The only thing it defines is what half of the worlds population you're more inclined to want to fuck.

    I wouldn't say "hello, i'm hetrosexual. It makes me who I am!".

    Patently, this is incorrect in that my sexuality is nothing to do with WHO I am.

    It just gives me a pointer to where i'm likely to have more fun.

    If people treat you differently cause your bi, then they have some sort of problem.

    If you think you treat people differently cause your bi, then, I would suggest that is also a problem.
  46. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    sir g, go to your room. you're grounded.

    ...

    see, THAT was patronizing. just because you've been feeling got at in this conversation, that doesn't mean you've been patronized.

    if you are unprepared to accept the repercussions of your actions (eg, unfavorable responses to things you say on a public forum), then i strongly urge you to consider what you choose to say on a public forum with more care. if you were already aware of how people can react to unnecessary details about others' sexuality and sex lives on these boards, why then did you bring yours up? hmm?

    as for doors, he used to shag sheep. then one day he built a bridge. now, there's an old saying, a man can shag a thousand sheep and build one bridge, and to the rest of the world he's not an engineer, he's a scotsman.

    sexual exploits, orientation, and identity are fairly boring things unless someone's actively interested in you that way. i've got a friend who's 14, female, happens to find other girls attractive as well as boys, and we occasionally discuss the differences in the way kids today approach sexuality in her country and how we looked at it in mine when i was that age. we also discuss litterary merits of sci-fi over fantasy, socio-political science theory, and music appreciation. who she happens to find attractive has nothing to do with who she is. what gender she happens to be has nothign to do with the conversations we have. her age has only one impact on our conversations and that is that i tend to refrain from some of my more 'colorful' profanity... most of the time.

    bringing this thread back on topic?

    i don't care what gender a person is. i really don't. i see absolutely no benefit from advertising such a thing via icon, and i worry that it could create the wrong impression about us if we include it as an option when someone registers.

    once upon a time we had an invasion from some star trek nerds on the old site. looking around at their website, they had threads like 'which forum member would you most like to hug' and 'if you have a secret crush on someone here, message me and i'll tell them someone has a crush on them for you!' these were popular threads over there.

    now, i don't think a poll is necessary to determine that just about everyone here would hate it if our community went that way. i'm overly cautious about such things, so i voted no in this poll. last time i looked at the first page, the votes were neck and neck, but the no's were in the lead.

    it's been up for a long enough period of time now, i think. i feel it's safe to say the motion's been defeated, but we can leave it up a bit longer if you like. anyone second the motion to close?
  47. Roman_K New Member

    I don't see a reason to show a poster's gender, and I see plenty of reasons not to. That's that, as far as I'm concerned.

    And Sir_Gawain, no one was patronizing you. As for you being bisexual, I don't rightly care. It [i:ca4c849ff5]is[/i:ca4c849ff5] just like saying you have big hooters, because it attracts attention in exactly the same matter. If it affects the way people treat you, then note that sexual orientation affects how people treat you in exactly the same way that a physical characteristic does. Physical characteristics, you will note, also affect a person's personality, because the environment and the way it reacts to the person does indeed help shape said person.

    Now, what would you like to be judged for? Would you like to be judged by your character, or by big breasts?

    Now replace 'big breasts' with 'being bi', and tell me if there's a difference.
  48. Pixel New Member

    Second the motion to close, especialy as Roman has so well summed it up in his last two paragraphs!
  49. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    as of whatever day this is, motion fails by 7 to 5 against. voting remains open in case other people come to the topic late
  50. Pixel New Member

    Garner - sometimes I think you must be related to Esmerelda Weatherwax - you post saying that this poll has been up long enough, ask for a someone to second the motion to close it, I second the motion, and then you post to keep it open - this is Granny's perversity at its best! :)
  51. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    what in the hell are you talkin about?

    what my post ammounted to was 'the issue is over until such time as public opinion changes'
  52. Pixel New Member

    Garner - read your post - you asked for a seconder to a motion to close the poll - I seconded.

    [quote:1461a9ebf2="Garner"]it's been up for a long enough period of time now, i think. i feel it's safe to say the motion's been defeated, but we can leave it up a bit longer if you like. anyone second the motion to close?[/quote:1461a9ebf2]
  53. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    i'm a busy man, i haven't got time to be reading the things i say!
  54. Angua_rox New Member

    [quote:3ec2b4f93c]sir g, go to your room. you're grounded.

    ...

    see, THAT was patronizing. just because you've been feeling got at in this conversation, that doesn't mean you've been patronized.[/quote:3ec2b4f93c]

    That wasn't patronising. THIS is patronising-
    Look, Sir G, i appreciate that you [i:3ec2b4f93c]think[/i:3ec2b4f93c] you're bi but your far too young to realy know yet, unlike us. We need to get on with the important things now dear so will you leave us alone now? thanks, good girl/boy/thing.

    Garner was just authoritive.
    On an unrelated note (but on the actual topic) i think that the only reason people want to know other people's gender is for romantic purposes and that's not really what this is about.
    Also the whole
    [quote:3ec2b4f93c] they had threads like 'which forum member would you most like to hug' [/quote:3ec2b4f93c] just shows how upset Garner was cause he didn't get any virtual hugs! :lol:
    Altogether now, group hug for Garner. . . . . .

    Aw bless :lol: :)
  55. Katcal I Aten't French !

    I'm not sure I want to hug Garner, he bites...



    Oh, ok...

    **wary hug**
  56. Garner Great God and Founding Father

    i've only ever bitten upon request, i'll have you know.
  57. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Hmmm, tasty...
  58. KaptenKaries New Member

    How can you resist hugging a big, hairy fellow like m, err, Garner?

    Come here, man, and get a big Baloo embrace!

    *hugs*
  59. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Yikes, watch out for that parrot, I bet it doesn't wait for a request to bite people ! :D
  60. Ba Lord of the Pies

    Why does Katkal think Karies has an eyepatch?

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