a bit random, but anyone see the last 'inspector morse'? he basically directs everything from his deathbed, i could maybe see granny or vimes doing something like that as a grand exit but i still dont think Pterry will kill either off. And isn't Carrot already sort of taking over from vimes? a vimes Mk 2 isn't really needed if he's going to get killed off.
I agree with tiffany taking over from granny though, maybe granny finally swallowing her pride and asking her to help with something... after all she's thought it was her time before now...

I just noticed that this thread should really be in the Witch section... Sweepers ?

I agree. Moved it.

It is indeed difficult to imagine Ankh-Morpork without Vimes. That's part of the trouble, really... PTerry has been trying, I think, to relegate Vimes to a more of a support role with every passing book, without really being able to let go. The result is that Vimes can't work as a support role character anymore, because the character as crafted by Pratchett is too bossy and stubborn for his own good. The only possible scenario that I can see at the moment is that Vimes will become relegated to a full secondary role due to child and health issues (a heart attack sounds like a reasonable literary device here), letting Carrot finally grow out of the "simple yet maybe deep" secondary role at last, and taking full control of the Watch in *essense* and not just in job description. After which, I can also see Vimes succumbing to a heart attack while trying to bail an older Young Sam out of some mess... We'll see. First PTerry has to come to grips with the fact that he has to let Vimes go.

Also, a bit unrelated, but at this point, I must admit that I have reached fairly close to the level of revulsion that Doors holds for any appearance of the Igors. They have simply grown to be a regressive character in terms of depth. The whole Igor thing is starting to remind me of the old standard parodies that PTerry wrote as his earlier books. Nice, but we've grown up since then, I had hoped.

Now, a bit more related to the original topic: I can see Granny as a "spirit guide" character, and can work out rather well in my view. Unlike with Vimes, Granny can be "let go" with much greater ease.

Don't be too shocked, but I actually agree with most of what Roman said there. Pterry's attachment to Vimes is the nub of the issue. But the trouble with Vimes is the decrease in conflict in the character's life. He's more or less at peace with himself, he's happy with his wife and son, he doesn't get so wound up by Vetinari (or anything much) any more, he's got the Watch in good shape, he's sorted his drinking problem... Without enough conflict, it becomes very difficult to generate a good story, and there's a limit to the amount of NW-style artifices you can use.

I think Pterry's been building up to letting go of Vimes for a long while now, but I think he's working carefully to get the right elements ready to replace him - I think most fans would find it very hard to accept the Vimes-shaped hole without, for example, the presence of Vimes Jr. However, I personally feel there's a long way to go with Carrot before we'd be ready to see him running the Watch. He certainly couldn't support a novel of his own at the moment. With Carrot, Pterry tends to break one of the cardinal rules of good writing - the 'show, don't tell' rule. He tells us about Carrot's magical characteristics far more often than he shows them in action - and when we do see them, they usually feel really clunky to me.

Of course, this is all diverging a long way from a Witches thread, but there we go.

**faints**

*throws Katcal into an alligator pit*

Ba has standards that I must uphold while he is away, you understand.

Grace, regarding the lack of conflict making Vimes difficult to properly fit into a story, not to mention writing a full story just around him, I agree. And yes, there's certainly a Vimes-shaped hole that must be filled, but it has to happen soon. Vimes doesn't fit that Vimes-shaped hole anymore...

Regarding Carrot, his mezmerising personality worked rather well as a plot item up to and including Jingo. The problem was that it was the exact same plot item, used in the exact same manner, and it's become rather dull. Carrot evolves as a character, but he does it so slowly...

I wish we'd get more Sybil, to be honest. I'm not that interested in MiniSam and she has gotten very little space to shine since her first book.

I'd love to see more of Sybil too. I think she's a great character, and very underused.

Yep, same here, although I guess there are those who rant on about Pterry only ever doing strong female characters, but hell, if he's good at them...

Depends on what you mean by 'strong'.

Strong as in rich, coulourful, detailed and put forward in the storyline instead of being sidekicks... and also strong as in personality strength too. I seem to remember having this discussion before, and that the outcome was that the only female character that we could think of that was really "weak" was Christine in Maskerade...

Do you mean this one, perhaps?


A weak female character?

It could have gone on a little longer, it seems. Why not continue it? Could be interesting, now that a few more characters have been added to the list. Maybe in a new thread? Or reviving the old one?