The Witch series as a whole

Discussion in 'THE WITCH BOOKS' started by Lieutenant-Fatman, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. Lieutenant-Fatman New Member

    When reading all of the Discworld books, I decided to leave out the Witch series at first, because I didn't find Equal Rites to be particualrly brilliant in comparison to the other books written by Mr. Pratchett (though it was still very good).

    But when I ran out of Discworld books, I decided to give the rest of the Witch Series a try and that was a good decision, because they stood up far better than I thought they would.

    In fact in some ways, I think they are better than the Death series of books. A very good read, I have to say.

    What does everyone else think of the Witch Series as a whole?
  2. Maljonic Administrator

    You do get the idea that this is a back up site to go to if the other one isn't working don't you? Though there aren't any regulations that say you can't post here, you may not get many responses to your posts.

    Anyway, personally I read all the books in order as they came out; I never saw them as seperate little series, or even considerd the idea until some people mentioned them as such on the Terry Pratcthett message board. :)
  3. spiky Bar Wench

    I read them totally out of order, it was a matter of which ones could I get my hands on through lie, cheating and stealing (but most commonly boring and buying second hand :eek: )... I don't think it matters that much but I reckon the later books are better for having read the earlier ones.

    The witches aren't my favourite, I'm a watch person myself so I shall leave to let the people who prefer the witches...
  4. QuothTheRaven New Member

    Same here. (Both on on being a watch person, and reading them out of order).
  5. TamyraMcG Active Member

    I have a soft spot for Equal Rites, since that was the book I first read all those years ago. I also read them in no particular order, I think I have them all read now and purchased as well so I am going to start from the top, I just had to take a little break to read a little Elizabeth Moon and Anne McCaffrey, etc.

    I think that there is more in store for Granny Weatherwax, she probably is training Tiffany to be her sucessor as the "top" witch, even if Tiffany is tied to the Chalk she could be the top witch, I see the witch world as being sort of extranational, maybe even intercontinental. Witches fly over the landscape and they know the boundaries shown on maps are imaginary.
  6. Cassiepeia New Member

    The witches are my favourite characters so far (although I do love the Watch books as well). Not sure why I like the witches, but I do and I'm desperate for TP to write more books involving them. Especially Granny.
    Equal rites is probably my least favourite of the witch books, Carpe Jugulum being my favourite (unless we're counting the Tiffany which case A hat full of sky is my fav).
    I agree that Tiffany seems to be in line to take Granny's place (although not for some time I hope :? ), she reminded me so much of Granny as I was reading Wee Free Men that I was glad when Granny made an appearance at the end of it. :) a whole, I think they're fantastic. I both admire and fear all of the witches. Those books are the most frequently read in my collection and Nanny's cookbook is a frightening curiosity in my kitchen. :p

  7. Hsing Moderator

    If I remember correctly, I always thought that Agnes was one witch too many. Granny works extremely well on her own (well, not throughout the story, but as a character...), Granny and Nanny together work perfectly well (I found the scenes with Nanny Ogg as the only witch in it never quite as thrilling as the solo pieces Granny had within a story, though - it was a lot comical relief, which is a fine thing, but still), and with someone else at their side (first Magrat and then Agnes) whom they can excercise their strengths at, they are great.

    But while Magrat still had a charm of her own, and was allowed to surprise the reader from now and then, Agnes as a character never quite rised above the initial idea of the clumsy newbit with a split personality (not excercised very consequently, too). I think I remember reading one times too many that when she turned around, parts of her needed some extra time to arrive on the new spot (or something along those line, I'm far away from home right now and can't check.) She simply had the function -at least at times- to give -mainly- Nanny Ogg someone to talk to. And for a pure background character, something she never quite stopped being, she got way too much space.
  8. Cynical_Youth New Member

    I agree, Hsing. I think that may be part of the reason Tiffany Aching has cropped up. It's part of the development of the witches.
  9. Rincewind Number One Doorman

    The thing with Tiffany is she's too much like Granny. By the time she's old enough to be in the main series (after wintersmith) I think Granny will be dead. Tiffany will be to young to fill Grannys role within the Coven, so it wouldn't work.

    Or, if Granny is alive, Tiffany is to much like her for them to work that well in a main book. Unless, it's in the teacher/pupil role like Men in Hats.
  10. Hsing Moderator

    Women in Hats, though.
    I sometimes thought that PTerry may have felt like writing a relatively non-nonsensical Doscworld-related story for a younger audience (which he did quite well, I like the Tiffany-books very much), and thus introduced Tiffany as the young heroine. I think that was also a reason for entering an area that wasn't really mentioned before in the Discworld books, to give it all an independant stance.
    That might enable him to keep the two witches apart, despite Granny's role in Tiffany's life.
  11. Cynical_Youth New Member

    Tiffany has plenty of room to develop and become something else than a young Granny, though. If Granny dies, I think Tiffany's books would continue the Witch side of things. Not necessarily in the main series.

    Ah well, maybe that's looking too far into the future.
  12. sampanna New Member

    Witches are pretty territorial, and Tiffany is from the chalk, while Granny is in the Ramtops. I think they can coexist for quite some time ..

    I do agree with Hsing that Agnes never really seemed to fit in into the witches' world.

    Addressing the main topic: I definitely like the Witches' series, partially because Wyrd Sisters was the first Pratchett I ever read ..
  13. fairyliquid New Member

    I'm actually reading wyrd sisters at the moment, i haven't read equal rites yet though am getting round to it.

    I love the characters, granny particularly. They have very strong characters and because of the stereotypes surrounding witches there is so much you can do to move that image around. The way pTerry manages to take the 'all witches are evil' stance and make them more into people who dodge magic almost as much regular people.

    Anyway, seing as i haven't read them all yet I'm probably missing a lot of points but, for the moment, granny is probably a favourite character. Her attitude is simply a pleasure to read and has so many opertunities to do more with. She would be a horror to read but is a pleasure to read.
  14. fazza72 New Member

    Although the watch is my favorite story arc in Discworld I really did enjoy the witches series. I feel however that TP has taken them as far as he can at the moment. When I finished Carpe Jugulum (which I thoroughly enjoyed) I came away with the standard feeling of awe and amazement of Granny, however ... ... I thought she was portrayed as a bit too powerful and wonder where TP could go with that series after that.

    I was impressed with Wee Free Men, and A Hat Full of Sky blew me away. I enjoyed the new direction the "witches" stories were being taken. I also like this new approach to Granny Weatherwax, a teacher and more suprisingly travelling out of her comfort zone. I feel that in Carpe Jugulum she proved she could not be beaten on her home turf so it is good to see her moving around a bit.

    On the whole though I do enjoy the witched series. Books about magic, sex, cookery and songs. Plenty to enjoy and I find the blend of characters to be superb.

  15. Mimiru New Member

    The witch books are my second favorite, aside from the Watch. The first discworld book I read was [i:58b4a2ae18]A Hat Full of Sky[/i:58b4a2ae18]. My friend told me about Discworld last year, when I went to the library and checked out as many as I could. The first was that one, and the next ones were all Watch books.

    I love the interactions between Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg. Nanny Ogg makes me laugh.
  16. AuntieM New Member

    I love the witch books. It's about time there was another one.
    What happened to Eskarina and Magrat's baby?
    Has Agnes Nitt taken Magrat's place in the unofficial Granny Weatherwax coven?
  17. Hsing Moderator

    Hm... Eskarina: I seem to remember PTerry himself said at one point that he wasn't planning on make her appear again.

    Spoilers for "Mort" and later Death Books :

    [quote:e985b2b5fe][size=9:e985b2b5fe] [color=white:e985b2b5fe]Seeing how much time passed on the Discworld (except in Lancre, where they jumped over a few years) she should be in her mid forties by "now" (assuming that she was in her late teens at the end of Equal Rites, and seeing the next book was "Mort" and how, by "now", the offspring of Mort and Ysabel is grown up Susan). So well never see young Esk from Equal Rites again, except she got lost in a dungeon dimension.[/color:e985b2b5fe]

    A cameo would be interesting...

    And Agnes... I suppose she was to fill the gap Magrat left. I -again- seem to remember Nanny Ogg and Mistress Weatherwax talking about the fact that Magrat was now busy Queening and all, plus being a mother. (It was more the Queening, though, it seems, being a mother didn't stop Nanny after all.)
  18. Tephlon Active Member

    [quote:f957893f29="Hsing"]And Agnes... I suppose she was to fill the gap Magrat left. I -again- seem to remember Nanny Ogg and Mistress Weatherwax talking about the fact that Magrat was now busy Queening and all, plus being a mother. (It was more the Queening, though, it seems, being a mother didn't stop Nanny after all.)[/quote:f957893f29]

    In a witches coven there's The Maiden, The Mother and [size=9:f957893f29]the Crone[/size:f957893f29].
    With Magrat now being a "Mother", and Nanny not willing to give up her spot, they needed a new "Maiden", so they recruited Agnes/Perdita X.

    Of course Granny is technically a Maiden and will never be "The other one", so Agnes is never named as the Maiden.
    Just remember that Nanny and Granny can bend the rules as they see fit and need someone to push around. :)

    Edit: Spling
  19. Ba Lord of the Pies

    No, no, Granny is a crone. She just won't let anyone [i:44329f7dc1]say[/i:44329f7dc1] it. Her virginity has nothing to do with it.
  20. Wynci New Member

    The Witch books were great..... I just love the way Granny is....

    Margrat was actually one of the characters I disliked in the Discworld series and I welcome the change Agnes brings.....
    And Agnes has really proven herself to be capable in Carpe Juglum.....
  21. Tephlon Active Member

    [quote:7979f490b1="Ba"]No, no, Granny is a crone. She just won't let anyone [i:7979f490b1]say[/i:7979f490b1] it. Her virginity has nothing to do with it.[/quote:7979f490b1]

    I always felt that Granny could legitimately say she wasn't the crone because of her virginity. As Nanny doesn't want to be the crone either they tend to avoid the subject.
  22. Hsing Moderator

    I seem to have a language problem here... According to my dictionary, a crone is basically an old woman. What makes you a crone?
  23. Tephlon Active Member

    Crone is more "Evil old woman", I think... :)

    Let me look it up: gives these definitions:
    [quote:1ededdd5bb]An ugly, withered old woman; a hag.
    [Middle English, from Old North French carogne, carrion, cantankerous woman, from Vulgar Latin *carnia, carrion, from Latin car, carn-, flesh. See sker-1 in Indo-European Roots.][/i:1ededdd5bb][/quote:1ededdd5bb]


    n : an ugly evil-looking old woman [syn: hag, beldam, beldame, witch][/quote:1ededdd5bb]
  24. Hsing Moderator

    Thanks for the info as well as the link! :)
  25. Plugger New Member

    after reading hsings spoiler im wondering how thingy got into that place, its kinda hard typing this without spoiling it for someone, when they only "studied" at...urm...the other place
  26. Hsing Moderator

    Hm... I don't quite get it. Could you type it out spoiler proof, maybe? (How: change the colour of your font so that it matches the background colour of your post.)
  27. Katcal I Aten't French !

    I just love Nanny, I think she may just be my favourite character in the diskworld books. I can't wait to have a few kids and find myself an evil cat. Unfortunately, I'm quite satisfied with my one husband, so I'll have to skip that part, but apart from that, I AM an Ogg.
  28. Plugger New Member

    DO NOT READ!!! lol
    [color=white:8ce75c71d1]ok...just wondering how Esk ended up in DD if she was only "studying", really more sort of cleaning, at the UU [/color:8ce75c71d1]
  29. Hsing Moderator

    DD = Dungeon Dimensions?
    If yes, well, she didn't, at least as far as we know, end up there.
    The word "except" was to meant to be used like "unless"... as a subjunctive. Language blunder from my side to use "except" instead of "unless", I guess.
  30. Sir_Vaims New Member

    I love the Witch series. Terry makes it clear that the life philosophy should be examined from a more ''natural'' point of view-in that case-the point of view of Granny,Nanny and Magrat. Witches Abroad and Lords and Ladies are two of my favourite novels. Long live the porkupine(porcupine)I am not sure for the spelling
  31. gabba New Member

    To my annoyence i have just found out my Carp Juggulam book is missing, and so are a few other TP books :(

    The witches are wonderfull and i was delighted to see granny turn up in wee free men, It will be a sad day for me when he finaly kills Esmelda Wetherwax off, it seems to me that with every book she gets weaker only to strike at the end, Nanny will never be a crone, so prehaps he will not...

    Love the witches and look forward to more
  32. TheJackal Member

    I'm currently listening to the audiobook version of Equal Rites. Haven't read or listened to it for years, and cannot believe how many small differences there are in Granny Weatherwax as a character.

    For instance, she goes to Ankh-Morpork without Nanny Ogg (who isn't mentioned at all in the book, not having been introduced at this stage by PTerry). Fair enough, he had not come up with Nanny by then, but if it were a later book, Nanny would definetly been by Esme's side (as similarily seen in Witches Abroad I suppose) or at least had a big argument over why she should come!

    Overall, I like these differences as I can see the evolution that Granny's character takes.
  33. wannabenanny New Member

    I have a soft spot for the witch books,wyrd sisters being the first PTerry boook I ever read of his ,but didn't find Equal rites to be that spactacular.
  34. dididave New Member

    Granny Weatherwax versus Death, now that would be some battle! Carpe Jugulum is my fave Witch book but Witches Abroad also has its moments.
  35. rnbwlaw New Member

    I agree that it is about time for another witch book. Although I love the watch books, I would like to see a new witch book.
  36. Pixel New Member

    Unfortunately, I think that the [i:9e5d079002]Lancre[/i:9e5d079002] witch books have probably reached their limits - there are only so many threats to Lancre to be foiled by Granny Weatherwax, and she can't be broomsticking all over the place at her age (but don't tell her that!) - Tiffany will, I am sure, always remain loyal to the Chalk, so it looks probable that Nanny Ogg, Magrat, Verence, Agnes and of course Greebo may fade into the background - although you never know - Ankh-Morpork is such fertile soil (and that's just the river!) for new stories, what are the possibilities for the witches to meet the Watch?
  37. roisindubh211 New Member

    I would LOVE to see Granny encounter Sybil Ramkin- battle of wills, perhaps?
  38. Katcal I Aten't French !

    Or even Ogg meets Nobbs :D A rude and amusing shaped vegetable competition maybe ? :D
  39. peapod_j New Member

    i love the witch books but Tiffany is stonger than Grany Weatherwax i mean in The Wee Free Men Grany took her hat off to Tiffany and thats the first time that has ever happend and i have read all the witch books (I think) so is that respect for a witch on her home soil or for a more powerfull witch?

    but Ogg meets Nobbs = :lol:
  40. Silvermoth New Member

    I love the witches series probably more than the wizards because Nanny Ogg alone makes it worthwhile and I also love to read about poor Agnes
    Rachael_Evans cam
  41. mr_scrub New Member

    I'd like to see Ogg and Nobbs, possibly Nanny being held in custody for some sort of oggish behaviour and agnes reaction to angua and sally :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
  42. thedisc New Member

    I always felt that after Equal Rites the witch series went from strength to strength. Lords & Ladies was excellent with Carpe Juggulum being an exceptional book.

    Best series behind the watch.
  43. TamyraMcG Active Member

    I have been wondering about the effects of that spell that kept Lancre out of the flow of time for twenty years, wouldn't that have made her twenty years younger then she should have been when she met up with her old boyfriend Mustrum Ridcully? I need to read these books again, soon.
  44. mr_scrub New Member

    What was this 20 years out of time spell? I don't remember it.
  45. Hsing Moderator

    I ahve at one point been wondering about that one, too! That meeting was in Lords and Ladies, and the time spell was in Wyrd Sisters. So, you are right...
  46. TamyraMcG Active Member

    I'm not sure if it was twenty years or fifteen but apparently Ridcully didn't even notice. Perhaps that was because Esme tried so hard to be properly witchlike in her appearance. I would have liked for him to wonder a little. I just finished Lords and Ladies again this morning. It was a very satisfying read outside of that question.
  47. mr_scrub New Member

    I haven't read Wyrd Sisters in a loooong time so I don't know about this.
  48. TamyraMcG Active Member

    It was one of the most exciting things that happened in the book, you should read it again. One of the best things about the Discworld books is how well they stand up to being re-read.
  49. mr_scrub New Member

    I can't find it anywhere. I've read all my other ones at least 5 times.
  50. TamyraMcG Active Member

    Well I hope you find it again. I guess you know what I mean about being able to reread these books. :D

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