Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (SPOILERS!)

Discussion in 'NON PRATCHETT BOOK DISCUSSIONS' started by Hsing, Jun 29, 2007.

  1. Hsing Moderator

    ...okay, seeing it was already mentioned elsewhere, I am going to out myself: I have pre-ordered the book. Right now I am re-reading the other books, parallelly to some serious history and a bit Zola, which is a very strange reading experience. *gulps*
    Who else awaits the outcome of the story? Out with you!
    And: Is it too late to speculate geekily what will happen?
  2. Katcal I Aten't French !

    They're all going to realise that the world isn't round, it's flat, and carried by a big turtle and 4 elephants. That's wha'ts going to happen :biggrin:

    I have pre-ordered it from Amazon, I'm mildly excited about finding out how it finishes, but not all that crazy either...
  3. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    I pre-ordered it a while ago. I've re-read the other books recently, when I read them to Garner. I'm definitely looking forward to the final book, but I'm also sad that there will be no more.

    These are the predictions I made before Book 4 came out that have not yet been proven or disproven:
    Dumbledore will die - You could argue that this has been proven (and I think it has), but some people think he's not really dead or that he'll get resurrected. I say he's dead and he's staying dead.
    Hagrid will die - I'm not 100% on this one, but I think it's very likely.
    Snape is good, and will probably die - I've always been definite about the former (well, since the end of Book 1), but am less certain about the latter.
    Draco will be redeemed - I've been arguing this since Book 1 and I still believe it.
    Harry will ultimately beat Voldemort by feeling compassion for him - I think that the power of love is the main theme of the books.
  4. Hsing Moderator

    Judging from the new cover, they will have to try to break into Gringotts, and will in some way experience what the Goblins described in book 1 (what happens to non-Goblins trying to enter) in one of the first chapters: They'll be sucked into a high security vault.
    As to Buzzfloyds prediction number 3: In "The Goblet of Fire", Snape can see himself -along with the reflections of Dumbledore and McGonnagal- in Barty Crouch Jr.'s foe glass... I didn't find this mentioned anywhere, but he even stops there to ponder his reflection if i remember it correctly. As Barty Jr is not going to make another appearance, I deem this a yet unresolved clue.
  5. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    Right, that makes sense. JKR's been setting up something big to do with the goblins ever since Book 1, with constant references to Goblin Rebellions, the way they control the wizarding financial system and so on.

    Interesting point!
  6. Mithras-Kosmokrator New Member

    I think Snape will turn out to be good. I also rather suspect that Harry will cop it.
  7. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    Really? I know she keeps threatening it, but do you really think she'd do it?
  8. Hsing Moderator

    I can't really imagine it...
  9. TheJackal Member

    I agree that Snape has always been good. I hope what he said to Dumdledore, to gain such trust, is something really surprising. That has bugged me for a while!

    JK cannot kill Harry because her fans would lynch her! I'd love it if she did though.

    I wonder what she will write after the series is over. Perhaps she will retire since she's at the top, young enough & rich?!
  10. caffinated_geek New Member

    I saw JK on the jonathan ross show last night and I got the impression that she'd killed harry off. Near the end of the interveiw he asked her if she'd write another harry poter book and she said the next book brings harrys story to a clear end but that she might write more about that world. I think the only way she could be sure of not writting anymore harry potter books is if she'd killed him off.
  11. Hsing Moderator

    I'm not so sure. I rather imagine she feels just like the actor for the HP movies do by now - you think of yourself as an actor, and not as an Harry Potter impersonator, and from some point on, you just have to say "That's it, no more, that story is ended." Or you will end up doing nothing else for the rest of your life.
    I think we'll be thinking she has to kill him until, at the end of the book, there's finally a way out. I somehow believe during the book, he will come to the conclusion that he is the last surviving horcrux, and has to die, and then... tadaaa! Whatever.
  12. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    She's been saying ever since the first book was published that there would only be seven. She says she doesn't want to end up writing Harry Potter And The Midlife Crisis. It's about not wanting the thing to become overdone rather than plot necessity, I think.

    It would certainly make a lot of narrative sense to kill Harry, but I don't think it would make thematic sense at all. The book, like so many, is about the triumph of love against all odds. We have already seen how it can overcome death. Killing Harry would actively work against the series main themes, thereby screwing up the message of the books. So it would be pointless. I am prepared to admit it could happen, but I would bet a modest amount that she won't kill him. She might go to good lengths to have us believe she will, but I don't think she will.
  13. jaccairn New Member

  14. Sunna New Member

    1. I have always STRONGLY believed Snape is good and I think Dumbledore understood something and something happened between the two of them when S killed him. Call me delusional. I think a suprise involving Snape is in the book.
    2. I strongly hope Sirius will come back. I don't know how it's possible,but somehow Pleeeease.
  15. Hsing Moderator

    Now even my husband asked me who is going to die.
    He pretended he was mocking me, but I bet he's dying to know and now he has no one to talk it over with because he always pretended to be too cool for the hype.
    I told him I would have to keep myself from skipping through the last chapters instead of reading the book in its proper order. He said, "You won't have to. I bet someone will rent a zeppelin and paint the names on it, and have it cruising over the city."

    Open questions besides those that have been mentioned already: What reason did she have to introduce Grawp? There has to be a reason. Or excuse. And Kreetcher? (I just now got the Kreetcher-creature thing.) She forbade the film makers to cross him out of the fifth film. Its two characters i could live without, but seemingly they'll get to play a role. Same goes for Crrokshanks.
    I also wonder why it has never been really mentioned how much Wormtail must have learnt about the good guys during his time as Scabbers.

    One of the last scenes hints that the horcrux stolen by RAB was still in the Black household, and has then been stolen by that petty thief, what was his name again? He was on the good side, actually, but cleptomanic... I bet he sold it to someone from whom retrieving it will take a few chapters.
  16. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    I'm sure that the final book will see the result of the wizards' oppression of non-human magical creatures. The fountain of magical brethren was broken apart at the end of Book 5, and I think we have seen the disintegrating relationships get worse since then. There have to be characters who demonstrate to the wizards that it is possible for them to live alongside other magical creatures. I think Rowling is very strongly trying to make the point that, among sentient creatures, you will always get a mix of good and bad. We've seen it with the centaurs and with the house-elves, and now we're seeing it with the giants.

    Both were obviously important from the get-go and have had minor plot points. For example, Kreacher is responsible for fooling Harry into going to the MoM when he thinks Sirius is there, and doesn't he also pass information on the Order to the Death Eaters? Kreacher is also important now, because Harry has power over him, and Harry's choices will be critical in this book. We've had Dumbledore and others bashing on about how our choices make us what we are ever since Book 1. By the way, I've just seen the fifth movie, and I think there are hints in there that validate my belief that Harry's compassion for Voldemort will save the day.

    I think he's going to have a crucial role in the final book. I hope he will be redeemed - I really think it's possible.

    Mundungus Fletcher. I think you're probably right about that.

    Do any of you read Harry Potter essays? I read someone's theory the other day that McGonagall is really on Voldemort's side. I don't think I believe it, but it's a nagging idea that keeps coming back to me. Especially since Garner asked about the cat imagery in the books and who it gets associated with, while looking at the kitten-plates on Umbridge's wall in the film. Mind you, cats are also associated with Hermione, Arabella Figg and Argus Filch. So, who knows.
  17. Hsing Moderator

    Well, by now everybody has gotten one or two traits, or moments, for whom you could dislike them. Only McGonnagal has remained the same since book one. I don't see her switching sides, either, though.
  18. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    For anyone interested, here is a link to a HP essays blog that I read from time to time. They vary in quality, but there are a couple of essayists there who always manage to get me thinking, even if they don't convince me. Swythyv is usually worth a read.

    Then there's Red Hen and her whole package of well-thought-out conspiracies.
  19. Hsing Moderator

    So many of these people will be "jobless" from July on. (As in, having a lot more spare time...)
    I've read two very good articles in the online version of one of Germany's biggest newspapers. I always thought of posting a shortened translation.
    One of these days maybe.
  20. Hsing Moderator

    Grace, that's a cool page. And it spares you a re-read, actually.
    I also love this quote:
    That always bugged me too.
    And I never believed no one from his circle of friends and the Order of the Phoenix happened to doubt his guilt all these years, either. Even if he was -as a teenager, before Azkaban- already unhinged enough to risk making one of his best friends (Lupin) a murderer, against his will, for nothing but a prank.
  21. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    I thought Sirius got hit by an Avada Kedavra and just happened to fall through the veil, which was why his body disappeared?
  22. toraspanda New Member

    The locket thief is believed to be Mundungus Fletcher, who is not so much a kleptomaniac as a petty criminal wheeler-dealer, who just can't resist a batch of cauldrons that fell of the back of a broomstick...and who will nick anything that isn't nailed down!

    Snape on the side of the angels? Never in this world - or the next! Rowling has built him up so overwhelmingly as a nasty, vindictive piece of work, it would be a serious fault of characterisation to redeem him at the eleventh hour. I think she's a better writer than that.

    My theory about who will be killed off, apart from Voldemort (who has to die, or the whole series collapses), is Harry's one remaining parent-figure, Molly Weasley. It is, after all, a literary tradition that the hero only comes of age after he has lost all parental and neo-parental support. In The Order of the Phonenix, when Sirius tells her "You're not his mother"
    , Molly retorts "I'm as good as!"

    I don't believe Harry will die, but I do think he will lose many of his powers once he has succeeded in destroying Voldemort.

    Roll on the 21st!
  23. Hsing Moderator

    I looked it up after I saw that in the film, he was hit by an Avada Kedavra spell. In the book, he probably wasn't -Harry would have recognized it-, he just fell through the veil, and dissapeared, after being hit by "a jet of light" by Bellatrix Lestrange's wand. It is not mentioned what spell it was, but he's still alive when he dissapears through the arc. It read, both back then and today, to me as if he dropped through by a kind of accident. Very "oops".

    Well, I'm not necessarily saying he is a nice person deep down, only very misunderstood. Or a "good guy" as such. but I do believe he is not on Voldemort's side, in the end. (For clues, see endless internet discussions. :) The sites Buzzfloyd linked to offer a lot of material, indeed. ;) )
  24. jaccairn New Member

    I think Percy will probably be killed, probably while trying to protect on of his family. About the only way he's likely to redeem himself.
  25. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    Good point about Percy! I agree that seems very likely.

    I disagree (of course)! Just because Snape is horrible, that doesn't mean he's evil. Rowling has gone to a lot of trouble throughout the series to make it clear that you can be on the side of good and still not be a very nice person and vice versa - in fact, half the plot of the first book is based around the fact that Harry suspects Snape of being evil simply because, in Quirrel's words, 'he does seem the type, doesn't he?' Just like any good writer, JKR has set out her stall on that one in the very first book, and maintained the theme since.

    Bear in mind also that we only ever see Snape from Harry's point of view, a character who is predisposed to dislike Snape from the outset (he's a Slytherin! My God!) - with one notable exception. I think the Unbreakable Vow scene with Narcissa at the beginning of HBP is very revealing - it shows Snape's compassion and loyalty, two qualities which I think are very important in understanding his later actions in the book, especially in the scene with Dumbledore on top of the tower.

    Snape is also playing the role of the classic spy or double agent. He is constantly maintaining an appearance, living completely as though he were what he pretends to be. This is true whichever side you think he's on, and it means we virtually never get to see the thoughts or feelings of the real Snape. Far from portraying a clearly evil or clearly good character, JKR has done very well in portraying a character who could be either - we won't know till the end.

    There are any number of essays that attempt to demonstrate Snape is a good guy. There's a brand new one here, from the Harry Potter essays blog, and Red Hen's essay on the subject is thorough and erudite.
  26. Rincewind Number One Doorman

    I don't think Snape will be bad.He's unlikable but not evil. There are a few reasons why I think this, one don't think it's enough of a reveal. We've been allowed to see Snape in a sympathic light (e.g him getting bullied by Harry's Dad) and I think most importantly Dumbledore trusted him. Dumbledore has consistantly been he savour of the books. Dumbledore knows everything and is never wrong. If Dumbledore believed in Snape it will be for good reason.

    I think Harry might die, I agree with Buzz that He will kill Voldemort using love and compassion.But I think that Harry will give his own life to save that of his friends, it will bit some lark about, making the ultimate sacrifice in the name of love being the most powerfull magic of all. The same thing that his mother did for him.
  27. Buzzfloyd Spelling Bee

    I read a very interesting piece here setting out a literary argument for why Harry won't die - ie an argument from literary convention and JKR's use thereof. My big fear is that Ron is going to die. :sad: In my opinion, there are more reasons for it to be Ron than for it to be Harry. He's also the one with a history of sacrificing himself for Harry.
  28. Hsing Moderator

    I've re-named the thread (its name is shorter now, and the word SPOILER meets the eye a little better.)

    In short, for now: I've read it, and honestly said, after the dust has settled, I grow more and more unsatisfied with the book.

    It read rushed to me, not pacing. There are logical loopholes which pointing out isn't even nitpicking - especially in a series where one of the charming things was that when the plot twisted, all the hints and clues had been there and the details had an inner logic to themselves. That has been shamefully neglected during the last two volumes. (At least when these facts fitting, and not contradicting details from the last volume, was always important in that series. In that regard, the HP books are different to those (like DW) where the world and its facts evolved and things in book 25 may contradict a side remark from book 1.)

    There has been a lot of out of character behavior, which is somthing different to character development.

    There has been sheer silliness, and not of the charming kind of the first four volumes.

    The epilogue!? Ouch.

    There are other discussable things, I think. I'll write a rather more detailed ran..., er, review tomorrow - I'm really tired now...

    But let's put it that way... I am not convinced.:sad:
  29. Hex New Member

    I don't know, I found myself to be feeling quite satisfied with the way things ended. That may have just been me being pleased that my Snape theory and my Harry-is-actually-a-horcrux theory proved correct.

    I definitely think it bears a second readthrough, but I was on the whole satisfied with the ending of the series upon first read. I think the way Harry 'died' was a twist I was not expecting - always good for someone who reads heavily inside the genre and is rarely surprised by anything in a fantasy book.

    A better ending than book six for me, because there was less of the happy-happy 'everyone's getting into these cutesy couples' feeling. Definitely less of that. I didn't really find it rushed, just fast-paced for a greater sense of urgency -- which really there was throughout the story.

    I'll probably find some things to be dissatisfied with upon another readthrough, but for now, after a first read, I find myself pleased -- maybe because I'm a sucker for a happy ending, or maybe because I don't have to stalk JK Rowling until I get some answers, or, of course, the happy feeling could just stem from the fact that I knew from the start Snape couldn't be all bad... nothing feels better than being proven right after all...

    ...or maybe that's just me... :D
  30. Hsing Moderator

    No spoiler wanrings from me, those wandering here have been warned enough! :wink:
    Well, things I did like to start with, and then a lengthy rant...

    Things I did like:
    • The redemtion theme, and how it was applied to expected and unexpected characters – Draco, Snape, Dumbledore, his brother, Scrimgeour, even Grindelwald…
    • The ministry scenes, where the muggleborns are being registered, even if the historical parallels are a little to obvios, almost… (Nazi Germany, South Africa…)
    • The background story about poor Tuney and her letter, and how rejected she felt.
    • Side characters, where they were allowed to actually unfold a little (Dumbledores old friend, Dudley, Aunt Muriel, the Delacroix...). Well, all except Daddy Lovegood, but that’s personal taste.
    • How Wormtail was killed. Not for reasons of satisfaction, it was just one of those “should have seen it coming but didn't”- bits I missed… And similar scenes.
    • See Nr. Eight from my didn't like list.
    • That there wasn’t dwelling on things that were already told. No lenghty stuff about the Chamber, not much looking back etc, not much more about the house elfs and the giants, because we already read how what came, came to be. I just would have liked it if the things that looked like they still had to be told or were plain missing hadn't been neglected like that. There seems to be no difference having been made between them.
    • [FONT=&quot]The end was thrilling, the last few chapters I mean. It wouldn't have kept me awake that long if it hadn't been.
    And now, the stuff I didn't like. Sorry if it's geeky, sorry if it's long.
    • For a book where so much happened, it was still astonishing how it took 100 pages to take off at all – I think that is when the wedding was interrupted – and spend another good deal of pages sulking around in the forest, that is a lot… Well, more room for the neglected side stories with formerly-important-and-beloved-characters-now-being-canonfodder would have been nice, a few sentences would, in some cases, have made all the difference…
    • Logical flaw: It has been pointed out in OotP that Trelawney made two prophecies (the second one to Harry in PoA), and never remembered that she made them or what happened around her during that time. Now, Both Dumbledore in OotP and Snape in DH state the intruder, or eavesdropper, Snape, has only heard the first half of the prophecy (“I told him all, all I had heard!”) If he had told Voldemort the entire prophecy, OotP would never have happened… How can Trelawney remember she was interrupted, and remember who it was, if it happened in the middle of her see-ing induced trance?
    • They are droppping like the flies. Well, it is a battle, so that is not astonishing. It is a work of fiction, though, so it would have been in the author’s power to get that across not so much like a shopping list of doom…
    • Ron faked parseltongue to get into chamber of secrets. Given how mysterious and unique the gift of speaking Parseltongue was portrayed until that stood in the way of rushing the action, that seems like one of the 1001 deus ex machina effects in the book. There were a few too many of them already.
    • Mrs Weasley finishes off Bellatrix Lestrange, while the rest of the crowd merely watches due to respect off dramatic purposes. These wizrding folks firmly believe into the narrative laws, right? Other than that, well, Rowling has a thing for motherly love and its power. Mrs Weasley can here be seen in top form. A hint in one of the earlier six volumes or this one that she is such a powerful fighter would have boosted this scenes credibility, though.
    • The side story of Lupin and Tonks, and wether their baby was borned cursed or not (is that even mentioned?), was totally… was there a check list of “things that have to have happened by the end of the series”? This was one of the side stories where just two really good sentences would have helped so much. You end up feeling they only reproduced before being killed off screen so a Lupin could appear in the epilogue and be matched with a Weasley.
    • The epilogue… Harry Pooter TNG, anyone? And… those names! Scorpius! *cringes * I also find one thing, well, interesting in a geeky way: Here’s the offspring of our heroes. The cast for future fanfics. And they are all… pureblood… with two wizarding parents…
    • One of the bravest men I ever knew…” Well, Harry always was a forgiving person. I can see him chainging his mind about a person that much. Over the course of nineteen years, and that person being dead, that is. Because Snape would never have become little Albus' second namesake if he had still been alive… And poor Snape deserves to be remembered, even when book 7 portraits him as far too pitiful and fixated for my taste, too soap-ish in his motivations. I am not for romantics, not to that(!) degree at least, but the chapter were Harry sees his memories contains a few heart wrenching pieces where I was reminded of what I liked about the earlier books, how Rowling could get across a lot of backstory in one short description, with a few words. Still, a bit less one dimensional as to motivations, values, etc, of one of the characters many readers had the most questions about, would have been nice. Love of his life. So. But that alone, would that steer anybodys decisions like that even seventeen years after her death? And nothing else? That was it?
    • Was she afraid the story would run away with Snape if she gave him too many scenes? He didn’t play too much of a role, if you consider she named the whole sixth book after him.
    • Which leads me to the following questions: Was it worth giving the rest of his life after surrendering to Dumbledore, and getting killed in the end? What exactly did he contribute to Voldemorts downfall, except for not being as bad a headmaster for the DE as another DE would have been? I thought he must have, but I can’t really answer that question to my satisfaction. Bringing Harry the sword. Maybe saving Remus, cutting off George’s ear in the process. And then? Brave to what end? Would a man with those abilities not have been more helpful openly fighting for the right side, instead of watching passively when people were tortured and killed? Was that worth it? Poor man, ended as a plot device. He killed Dumbledore, which made him a great spy – to which no one of the good guys would ever talk again, because Dumbledore had a pathological aversion against passing on helpful information. That, Dumbledore, is a cruel way of getting an assisted suicide, even taken into account it spares another teenager from becomin a murderer: “And my soul?” Good question. Poor Sev.
    • Dumbledore: Actually the background story added to his character, I thought. Made him grey-er. And fitted the theme of redemption (Snape, Draco, Dumbledore, in a way, his brother, redeeming himself from resignation). Still, I’d feel better if I was sure that all his non-telling decisions would have made sense. And… being tempted enough to doom himself to death by using the Resurrection Ring when even a seventeen year old wouldn’t be as greedy? After all these years of experience?
    • Nitpicking point: The three heroes are apparating all the time in this book, but from the back of the dragon, they have to jump dramatically.
    • Voldemort still sticking to the famous book of “Villains for Dummies” – that stroking Nagini, the superflous –for him, anyway- ultimatum…
    • Horkruxes for everybody! Loved the thing with the cup… Ron: “Look, even my girl got to destroy her own horkrux…” (beams)
    • So in 2017, people still say snogging. Or again?
    • Slytherins. Rowling said, in an interview, she wouldn’t want to have them all portrayed as stereotypical evil. But they are - the students at least! (The stuff, in hindsight, not sio much.) Not a single one of the students did not fit the stereotype. Although seeing this school has treated them for the last thirty years, I would have left, too. How can a house be kept when being sorted into it is such a major stigma, by the way?
    • So, the humiliation scene from the pensieve… Now we may have learnt it was Snape’s worst memeory not only because it was so humiliating, but also because it cost him Lily’s friendship. Obviously, though, it happened after the dirty trick Sirius played on Snape, and actually on Remus, too. Pity it wasn’t explained how Dumbeldore made Snape promise never to tell anybody, why Snape kept his promise even under some sort of pressure (Lily thinks he should be grateful! And that James is the hero!) And why really, James and clique are portrayed as such assholes… There’s not much left of James' aura by the end of the series. (And he's acting a little stupid too: Snape knows Remus is a werewolf, now. Annyoing the hell out of him might not be such a good idea. A branch of peace might be. But it seems those guys didn’t consider Remus’ well being too much in the end…)
    • Everybody was throwing around Forbidden Curses? A cruciatus for spitting at McGonnagall, when Harry couldn’t muster the scrouple-less-ness to put it on Bellatrix Lestarnge for killing (!) Sirius?
    • What was up with Percy? So he came back. But… I always hought you needed verrrry good reasons to treat your family like that, especially if it is an intact one and you are meeting your father in the escalator every other day.
    • The sheer plot being finding and destroying a number of magical items, increades by three, and the sudden concept of wands having a mind of their own, choosing their rightful and betraying their unrightful carriers. Talking swords anyone? That is a lot of D&D for someone who insists they don’t read other fantasy, don’t like it, and is solely inspired by the ancient epics, Mrs Rowling!
    • The handy connection to the Dark Lord, back again, this time from Harry’s side to Voldemort alone, and unnoticed by the latter. How convenient. Another deus ex machina.
  31. Mithras-Kosmokrator New Member

    Hmmm... Haven't read it yet, can't be bothered to buy it and it'll be months before I can can borrow it, so all these spoilers are useful...

    She killed Lupin?? Not impressed. At all. Frankly, I couldn't have cared less if Harry copped it. Still, at least Ron and Hermione made it out alive, and Dobby died (hooray!) I was right about Snape after all, but I didn't guess his motivation, such as it was. Poor old Severus.

    I find something mildly disturbing about them having children. I know they're 18 by the end of the book, and well into adulthood in the epilogue, but I still think of them as children. Hey ho.
  32. luggage New Member

    Hmm. I thihnk the epilogue could have been slightly more in-depth because the end was basically voldemorts dead *skip space of 19 years* everyone has children.

    But I do hope that JK decides to continue writing. Afterall hogwarts is still standing and the main characters have children.
  33. Electric_Man Templar

    Overall I enjoyed the book, although the epilogue was unnecessary. I would have preferred for a few other loose ends to be tied up - like what happened to the Dursleys? Dudley finally grows up, then they get put into hiding for their own protection, we learn some backstory about Petunia, then nothing whatsoever.

    The proper last few chapters were highly immersive. The unexpected location of Aberforth, the hiding but resilient students, Neville truly showing why he was picked to be in Gryffindor, the teachers finally mucking in to rid the school of evil and the Malfoys showing their true colours - fiercely loyal, to themselves.

    In terms of the bits I didn't like, this was the main one:

    For me, it wasn't that he managed to get it working, it was the fact that Harry was prepared to attempt them so often. After all we've been taught about those three spells being the height of all evil, the way Harry uses them without a protest from even Hermione was very jarring. The real crux was when McGonagall used Imperio, I was in a state of shock - I simply can't believe that she would use them under any circumstance. I did think that there may be a more noble ending than "they kill all the bad guys", more along the lines of Dumbledore imprisoning Grindelwald, but I was wrong.

    Another weird thing to add to Hsing's list was Hagrid. One moment he was completely covered in giant spiders, the next time we see him he's in the middle of the woods hung up by Death Eaters? I simply can't see why Voldemort would ask them to a) save Hagrid from the spiders (I can't believe he would survive the whole clan on his own), b) keep him alive, simply to carry Harry's body. Sure it made a nice symbol in the end, but considering Hagrid has been very resistant to them in the past it made no sense for them to keep him alive.

    But anyway, the book as a whole was a good read and a fairly satisfying end. The Deathly Hallows were a nice addition to the HP mythology (though I'm sure no-one else was reminded of Thief of Time with the plantation of a not obviously relevant fairy-tale book...) and learning the Dumbledore history was a treat.

    So when's the next one due out?
  34. TheJackal Member

    Read it, loved it. And that is not an accolade I readily hand out to a book. I most liked all the action, a far cry from OotP where there was barely any until the fighting near the end.

    Of course, I knew there were always going to be things in DH I wasn't going to like. Most were loose ends not tied up. I felt more needed to be said at the end, instead of fast forwarding 19 years.

    Some things which spring to mind, though I'm sure there are others:

    - The Durseleys were never mentioned again after the start. There could have been a reconciliation scene where they see each other in a better light. Thids was hinted to at the start but never materialised.

    - I always thought there was more to Cruikshanks than just an angry cat

    - I didn't like how Voldemort kept missing Harry et al by moments

    - That whole Hagrid still alive after being swept away by the spiders. Why would Voldemort want him alive?

    - Snape knew now was the time to strike. Why stay in the lion's den? His work was done; he should have attacked Voldemort or Nagini, or else joined the others outside facing Deatheaters.

    - The epilogue was crap, frankly. Naming the kids after parents, etc is so cliche & how everyone hooked up.

    Overall I'm happy. Would have preferred it if they both died though...
  35. AuntieM New Member

    I was a bit dissappointed. The writing got a bit Mills & Boon in parts.
    Some of it was very far fetched even for magic. Hermione's little beaded bag, which held everything including the kitchen sink but she hid it in her sock at one point? Yet they have been lugging huge trunks on and off the Hogwarts Express for 7 years! From the other books we learnt that there are witches and wizards all over the world in vast numbers, just look at the turn out for the Quiditch world cup yet they bump into just the person they need or at least remember they saw/met/read about them somewhere.
    Yes, I agree there were some loose ends I would have liked tied up - the Dursleys, the condition of Tonks son and who brought him up, did Lily ever know Snape loved her? Did George carry on with the joke shop without his twin?
    There's a lot already mentioned above that I agree with too.
    When they camped all those months, how did they wash, wash their clothes, get food besides wild mushrooms and never be seen by a living soul?
    I'd also have liked to find out how muggle borns got into Hogwarts. Did they pay, were they scholar shipped. Does everyone go to Hogwarts in Britain or just the lucky ones. What happens to unschooled wizards and witches?
    No, I'm still waiting for the end even though Voldemort is dead. (Still not sure why Harry isn't if he was a horcrux) I will have to read the near death experience bit with Dumbledore again.
  36. Hex New Member

    In my opinion, despite JKR's claims that she tends to read outside the fantasy genre and rarely interact with anything related to it, the little beaded bag screams Bag of Holding to me
    (from D&D: Bag of holding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The lack of availability in that case is because they are rare and expensive items, meaning the magic creating them is high-level and complex.
    One could assume the same for Hermione? After all, she's meant to be advanced beyond her years when it comes to magic.

    Seems odd after all that trunk-hauling, but as prestigious as Hogwarts may be, the money required to give every student the equivalent of a Bag of Holding wouldn't realistically be available to them.

    And as for the epilogue, I got the impression that the point that was being made was that everything in the lives of the characters had improved and there hadn't been any post-Voldemort troubles since he had been defeated 19 years ago. JKR was not giving us extensive details on the post-hogwarts lives of all her characters, but showing that all was well, giving us a little snapshot example of that. Cheesy as it was, her point was made with the very last line. "All was well."

    Or it could just leave it all open for a whole new series of books ... just in case JKR gets bored some day a decade from now.
  37. Hsing Moderator

    Yes, I too thought of Bag of Holding, and didn't have another famous witch figure have an item like this?
    Although I seem to remember that all the luxurious stuff up to the bathroom (which explains the washing) are always included in a wizard's tent (see Quidditch worldcup scenes).
  38. chrisjordan New Member

    ...Where did my post go?

    *glares around*

    I posted it last night/this morning. Actually posted it. And it's gone.
  39. jaccairn New Member

    It was there because I read it. The whole board seems to have looped back in time - it gives me several what it calls new posts but I've already read them.
  40. chrisjordan New Member

    OK, second attempt...

    WELL. That was awesome. Ignoring the cheesilogue, of course. I cringed at Scorpius. I wanted to call my kid that.

    I thought it was exciting and tense from the start. After the obligatory evil-elsewhere chapter, the Privet Drive stuff did a good job of setting the tension that lasted more or less through the whole book. Then once they'd shuffled out, it was straight to the action. The multiple Potters were good, and I liked how the subsequent attack felt unexpected, even though all the characters had been mentioning how dangerous it would be.

    After the Burrow/wedding scenes, the Grimmauld Place and tenty stuff was all interesting enough, and the series of action-packed excursions was great. It didn't seem to stop: the Ministry, the Lovegood residence (that horn thing made an excellent exploding barrel), Godric's Hollow, Gringotts, and then the Big Hogwarts Blowout (of which more later).

    This was all balanced out by the various twists, turns, backstories and revelations, something that had been lacking in the last one, and it didn't stop until the very end. There was all the Hallows stuff, and although I was sort of expecting Snape's revelation, Dumbledore's backstory was especially interesting. It was pretty cool how it incorporated previously obscure characters like Bathilda Bagshot, Grindelwald and the Grey Lady too.

    The Hogwarts battle at the end was gratuitous. Having what seemed like all the surviving characters ever mentioned return to fight was both awesome and ridiculous. I remember finding something really stupid...Percy saying to Fleur something like, 'So you're my sister-in-law now?' Hello good writing.

    Forget the Dumbledore revelations: my brain broke when Mrs Weasley said 'bitch'.

    For all the size of the death count, I thought it was mostly well handled until that final battle. Fred's death was shocking and dramatic, but then Tonks and Lupin just felt like they were thrown in as an afterthought to make sure we felt it, and Colin Creevey just felt tacked on.

    Poor Dobby.

    Poor Hedwig.

    Overall, though, although the action was a bit exhausting at times, I thought it was a good book and an excellent end to the series.
  41. Delphine New Member

    I enjoyed it. I didn't want it to end! A lot of things stick in my mind about it.

    I wasn't entirely sure about the epilogue. Who was the new headmaster? Was Victoire supposed to be Bill and Fleur's daughter? I also wondered about George, and whether he was rich and famous without Fred. Harry and Ginny, Ron and Hermione... it's what everybody expected, I suppose. What happened to the Death Eaters? I know it would have been a bit of a leap to have them still talking about it 19 years later, but now my curiousity will never be sated! And the Dementors? How did the Ministry ever control the Dementors anyway?

    After learning what deus ex machina means, I think it applies to a couple of bits in the book. Ron speaking Parseltongue, indeed. Possibly the worst bit in the book, I'd say. I snapped right out of it at that point. Surely you can't speak Parseltongue by hissing something you heard someone else hiss once.

    Fiendfyre as well! If it's one of the things powerful enough to destroy a Horcrux, how did Crabbe (was it Crabbe?) learn to conjour it? Handily, it destroyed the horcrux. The horcrux that Harry found by remembering a dusty old tiara he luckily stumbled across the year before, in a cathedral sized room nobody else knew was there.

    I didn't know whether to think Snape was good or bad until he died, and leaked his thoughts, when I knew he was good. The scenes in the Penseive were certainly impressive, but it still nags at me a little that Voldemort was supposed to have been "the most accomplished Legilmens the world has ever seen". Perhaps Snape was an even better Occlumens.

    The Imperius curses didn't bother me. Of the three Unforgivable curses, the Imperius curse seems like the light option. Using it to stop two Death Eaters torturing children and summoning Voldemort to come and kill Harry seems like a reasonable breach.

    The bit when Harry spoke to Dumbledore in Kings Cross was surreal and slightly disturbing to me. The flayed baby... what did it represent? the part of Harry's soul he had lost to Voldemort? The part of Voldemort's soul left in him? Was it a part of Voldemort that had died and gone with Harry to the ethereal Kings Cross? Was it perhaps meant to reveal compassion in Harry?

    I loved the bit with Aberforth. Throughout the whole series, Dumbledore has been portrayed as a near infallible, brilliant wizard without a blemish on his record. To get such background was captivating. But did anyone else want Rita Skeeter to get gruesomely yet amusingly murdered?

    Mostly, I loved it. I was glad they didn't just leap into action with a foolproof plan, or work out where all the horcruxes were as if by magic (although, as I said up there, the diadem was a bit of a stretch). I want to read it again, catch the bits I might have missed and think about it a bit more with everything everyone has said in mind. But that will have to wait until I need to get the train to Scotland again.

    I saw the film (Order of the Phoenix) last saturday as well. Certainly the best film yet. Imelda Staunton couldn't have been any more perfect as Umbridge. She actually seemed MORE EVIL than she did in the book. Difficult in a pink tweed two piece. More Snape would have been good. I look forward to the next film... when Harry is supposed to be 16. Ha! Daniel Radcliffe is Harry, but he doesn't really look like a teenager anymore.
  42. chrisjordan New Member

    Well I've done it. :mad:

    Edit: Also, some comeuppance for both Rita and Umbridge would have been good.
  43. luggage New Member

  44. Mithras-Kosmokrator New Member

    So it was Mr Weasley who got the reprieve - but still not sure who was bumped off as a last minute decision.
  45. Hsing Moderator

    My interpretation was indeed that it was the bit of Voldemort's soul that had been split from Harry just seconds ago, an incomplete and rather random bit, unlike the other pieces hidden in the Horkruxes that were more closely examined: The diary held the adolescent Tom Riddle, the locket held his eyes, and was maliciously observing... Well, I am not sure about the last part, but I definitely agree that it is part of Voldemort's soul.
    I also remember Harry saying, in the duel scene later, to Voldemort something along the lines of "I have seen what you will become, if you don't show remorse..."
  46. Katcal I Aten't French !

    FINALLY !!

    Got it, read it, finished it. Wow.

    Well, I must admit it was rather neat the way she made you think he was going to die, for a whole chapter I was sitting there saying "no, she's not REALLY going to, is she ?" and then not... hmmm... Nice twist, althought the Kings cross bit was rather weird. The flayed baby was a reminder of what Voldemort looked like before he did the whole "blood of my foe" bit and regained his body, to me.

    I more or less agress with a lot of things that have been said, especially that the Happilogue was rather too gooey... And they lived happily ever after... Well, yeah, I would have liked to know more, not just that oh so surprisingly they all get married and name their kids after so-and-so (or cheap perfume, eh scorpius... ewww !) : what happened to the others ? was Teddy a werewolf after all ? Where does Harry live ? Who is headmaster of Hogwarts ? So many questions, interesting ones, that weren't answered by the mush in the Happilogue.
  47. Faerie New Member

    I liked finding out a little bit more in this article than Rowling put in the epilogue. I would love a Harry Potter encyclopedia, and I've read the two books JKR wrote for charity (Quidditch Through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) but I want to buy them.

    It did bother me that there were so many loose ends at the end. Like what happened to Hogwarts, the ministry, Luna, George, Teddy, the surviving members of the Order, and the Dursley's? Even a little more on Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny's lives besides the fact that they had families. I liked the backstory of Petunia, Snape, and Dumbledore and his brother. I went back and read this thread and I was surprised how close many of the guesses as to what would happen came true.

    I was glad Snape turned out to be good, Harry defeated Lord Voldemort without dying too, Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione got together in the end. I knew this was a war and some characters had to die but I didn't like it when both Lupin and Tonks died. What happened to Teddy was too close to what happened to Harry when he had to grow up with out parents even though Teddy probably has better relatives than the Dursleys. I think my sister said this or maybe I read it on the internet or I could even be pulling this out of thin air but I heard that JKR probably won't be writing more about Harry Potter but she might do more within Harry's world and my sister thinks it will be about Teddy.

    My sister likes the books but makes fun of me when I talk about it, she says she wants to make sure I know these characters aren't really real. I've read on the internet about adults who went dressed up in wizard gear to buy the new book and I wouldn't go that far. I'm reading the book again now, but I think over all I liked it and I'm kind of sad that Harry Potter is over. I can still look forward to the movies even if they aren't as good as the books, I still haven't seen the 5th movie and I think I may even go by myself since I can't seem to get anyone that wants to go with me because they all went and saw it already. :mad:

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