Okay, I received a clacks about this today but don't quite know how to answer it on my own. Some people here still keep an eye on the old site, at least from time to time, and at least one of them is wondering when it will be okay to post on that site again.

I was pretty sure we'd made this a clear policy stance from the get go, that if you joined this site before the official date of the move you'd agreed to abandon the old site completely. Completey, full stop.

I'm aware that they have a moderator. I'm also aware that some old familiar faces have turned up on the old boards from time to time, and I'm sure some of them might be old friends. I'm aware that the old introduction thread I'd made is still in use, and so links to our site are still immediately available. If they want to find us, they can.

I'm also aware that, appearantly immediately after they gained a moderator, a lot of our problem posters over there disappeared and the original recipient of a Coventry petition reappeareed. I understand that person's an 'oldie' on those boards now.

My personal stance is unchanged. We shouldn't even go back there to look, much less post. Some of our key reasons for leaving are more prevalent now than ever. They have the spam under control, but one of the oldest trolls is now a member in good standing. To me, that community has to be left alone.

With that in mind, anyone who joined this community before the official move date should still be expected to uphold the community decision, and breaking ranks to post on the old site is a big no-no.

However, it IS a community decision, so I'm not going to try and speak for everyone. The question was put to me that the old site seems to have improved, and that the person involved wanted to know if it would be okay to post on both this site and that one, as there were topics they wanted to post there.

I've said why not post them here?

I think, if only for one or two people on the old site, it's still 'contaminated'. Posting there would violate some social contracts.

If the community disagrees, then I'll go along with the community's standard, but it's not a decision for one man to make.

Edit: For clarification's sake, the person raising the question was indeed a member of the old site, joined here before the official move date etc. I felt since it was a PM that it wasn't appropriate to say who had asked, so its up to them if they want to state their case any better than I reiterated it.

Don't want to see that website anymore, myself, and in my opinion, one can't dance in two weddings, either.

I think, given the old board's 'clientelle', that anyone who has been there and experienced his behaviour, shouldn't really want to go back. In a small way, it's almost an endorsement of his behaviour.

edit: by him I mean the freakoid arsenal fan

Generally, I think it's best if we avoid the other board. I think it's a case of out of sight out of mind. I think if some of the old faces start showing up there it *could* start raising trouble agian. Which I'd rather avoid.

I think people can post on more than one message board, but just alot of people on that message board are, as we know from past experience, happy to waste lots of time and energy to piss us off. I'd rather avoid anything that can remind them of us.

I'd like to think that people *would* rather post stuff here than there, but what the hey.

Although, I'm not completely comfortable with the idea, I guess if you want to post there under a name that doesn't connect you with this board nothing can stop you, but i think that would lead to much more trouble than it's worth.

True, if anyone's that determined to post there and doesn't want to step on any toes here, then you could always register a new name and even if anyone else here goes looking, we wouldn't know. still, that's not really the issue at hand

I have less of a principal problem with members returning to that site than an apprehension of what it will result in.

Let me explain.

See, I hadn't checked there for months, but as I've sent out plenty pf PMs before we moved and wanted to check which oldies had picked them up, I logged back in on the site a few weeks ago and looked around a little in the hope to see some of the old members around. The first thing I stumbled across was a thread that had been bumped, coincidentally, where a once obvious troll was verbally attacked by the crowd. By [i:60fc3884dc]"once obvious" [/i:60fc3884dc]I mean that at the time, the signature of the "newbit" as well as his appearance along with [i:60fc3884dc]half a douzen identical twins, all with provocing to nonsensical signatures and identically harmless-stupid-unreadable questions at the same day made it clear what was going on to anyone there at the time[/i:60fc3884dc].

You know what I mean.

Now someone digged out the thread for what reason ever, and instantly someone ignoring that it was almost three yeras old popped up to defend the poor chap against, basically, us, despite the fact thet we weren't present anymore, and also instantly some of the "new old guard" popped up to happily explain that all the "[i:60fc3884dc]people behaving like nazis are gone",[/i:60fc3884dc] yay, rejoice.

The people still, or again, there, appear to be more fixated on us than we are on them. A few months ago, I wasn't even that sure of myself anymore to be honest, but now I am. And, you see, I just can't see some of us posting there without provoking something, and finally dragging it here. It is bound to happen, sooner or later, in some way. It's the internet, mind you.

And that would harm this place.

I can't imagine any message board asking it's long term members for long not to post in a certain place, but this is what I see happening.

Mm, well, while that was extremely well said, and ultimately a very apt point, it's an issue i was still hoping to avoid.

Yes, there are parties known and unknown to us that we don't want paying any more attention to this site that they appear to be at present. Live and let live, and just ignore them is the current policy and I definately see no reason to even open it for debate.

I think that unless I, Doors, or a few others who would instantly be identified as our cronies were to go over there and post something baiting the 'new old guard', we're actually fairly safe from that sort of blow back.

Still, it's a concen that is one of the main reasons for the 'no going back' policy in the first place. While it probably wouldn't be relevant for anyone who was 'neutral' in the flame wars, the policy really shouldn't apply just to some of us and not to others.

I can see why this should ideally be avoided, but as its my main reason for apprehensions of any sorts concerning that policy I failed to do so.

I totally agree to the "live and let live" policy, and think people can post whatever they want there. But with a steady number of people acting on both places, and interacting with each one involved, I see the risk of the old conflicts being re-imported into this community. Which would be sad.

Maybe really ignoring the place means putting a blind eye to who posts over there and who doesn't, and rely on people's ability to catch up sooner or later, or have the sensibility not to drag any schmooze back and forth.
I really don't know for sure.

One thing has changed, though: One of the old arguments for the policy was that you couldn't be a part of this community and be, at the same time, on good terms with those who, without exaggeration, tried to [i:c269afcc57]destroy [/i:c269afcc57]it. I mean, someone posting on that place for a while after our move spent[i:c269afcc57] hours each day [/i:c269afcc57]on messing the board up. The archives are still a mess (which is one of the reasons why their newbits still get confused over old threads, and not only their newbits).

Officially, these nutters aren't part of that community anymore, and we are "only" dealing with people who state they don't like the oldbies of this community. If that has to result in the same policy, I'm not sure.

I would have it known that it was me who PMd Garner about wanting to post both on the old board & this one.

I was indeed a 'neutral' during all the crap we had on the old board with spammers/ trolls. My main reasons for leaving the old board were 1) out of loyalty to everyone on the new board, 2) the old board was being ruined by the aforementioned trolls.

But a recent visit to our old stomping ground surprised me, as it is much better now, since it has some moderation & vitually all trolls are gone.

I wouldn't ever want to post under another name, as that is misleading & I shouldn't have to hide who I am.

So basically I am looking for the permission of the board here to post on both sites. I spent 4 years, every day, on that site, and still feel part of that community as well as this one. I don't want to start any feuds over this though.

Far be it from me to criticise, but I think this thread sounds a little desperate. It sounds as though you're saying 'you can't post in places we don't like.'
On another forum I post on, the same happened, with a small community leaving a dead forum. That dead forum merged with a bigger one.
At first, we thought that the other forum was full of idiots (and it still is) and we urged each other not the post there, even to cause trouble.
But it doesn't work.
What's the harm in someone posting on another board? It's not like they are saying 'up yours Unseen' are they? They just want to visit more than one Discworld message board, and I can't see anything wrong with that.
In my opinion (and I know I#m hardly a major member here, so it's a humble one), you shouldn't try to dictate to people where not to post, if you do that, you're as bad as the people you're trying to avoid.

[quote:7b1ff15454="TheJackal"]I would have it known that it was me who PMd Garner about wanting to post both on the old board & this one.

I was indeed a 'neutral' during all the crap we had on the old board with spammers/ trolls. My main reasons for leaving the old board were 1) out of loyalty to everyone on the new board, 2) the old board was being ruined by the aforementioned trolls.

But a recent visit to our old stomping ground surprised me, as it is much better now, since it has some moderation & vitually all trolls are gone.

I wouldn't ever want to post under another name, as that is misleading & I shouldn't have to hide who I am.

So basically I am looking for the permission of the board here to post on both sites. I spent 4 years, every day, on that site, and still feel part of that community as well as this one. I don't want to start any feuds over this though.[/quote:7b1ff15454]You shouldn't have to start any feuds. If someone is trying to tell you (someone who you don't know in real life and has no order over you whatsoever) not to post somewhere you want to, I think it's quite clear where it is you should be posting on.

[quote:34d7cddb32="drunkymonkey"]You shouldn't have to start any feuds. If someone is trying to tell you (someone who you don't know in real life and has no order over you whatsoever) not to post somewhere you want to, I think it's quite clear where it is you should be posting on.[/quote:34d7cddb32]

Your opinion seems to be very similar to mine, but you see I've 'known' these members for years now and respect them to give their opinions, even if those comments I cannot agree with

[quote:ba5cd08b3c="TheJackal"][quote:ba5cd08b3c="drunkymonkey"]You shouldn't have to start any feuds. If someone is trying to tell you (someone who you don't know in real life and has no order over you whatsoever) not to post somewhere you want to, I think it's quite clear where it is you should be posting on.[/quote:ba5cd08b3c]

Your opinion seems to be very similar to mine, but you see I've 'known' these members for years now and respect them to give their opinions, even if those comments I cannot agree with[/quote:ba5cd08b3c]I agree with that too. Perhaps I sounded a bit angry.

it's not that you sounded a bit angry, but rather just that you don't quite seem to know the situation you're commenting on.

we've never said 'you can't post on other discworld forums'. that would be ridiculous. however, for a number of reasons, many still valid, we agreed not to go back to the one we'd left. we also said that rule should never apply to people who join this site later on, because of course they weren't here to make that decision. it would be like us telling them where to post, instead of agreeing as a group not to go back to an old site.

no one here is talking about going to post over thre to stir up trouble. that was, from day one, a forbidden thing. the issue is that by going over there to post, some of us would automatically provoke trouble even if we simply said 'hi, i've been gone for a while but i wanted to say that i thought Thud whas the best book yet'. if i did that, it wouldn't cause trouble from people who disagreed with my opinion, but from people who disagree with ME and my right to exist, basicly.

now, seeing as Jackal's spoken up, i feel kind of obliged to point out that he'd had some difficulty in understanding the 'no going back to the old boards' thing in the first place, but that eventually he did agree to our reasoning, or so i'd assumed. I appreciate that he asked if we thought it'd be okay before going to post anything over there. It's a valid question and deserves consideration.

I think the main objectives we've heard so far are, by and large, not directly relevant to someone like Jackal going to post, but the issue still stands, the entire group of us agreed not to, so it's a bit odd if ANY of us break ranks, even if its someone who wasn't so tangibly involved in the polarizing issues.

As has been said already, going back now in a way legitimizes the tactics of the person(s) who tried to destroy our community, and in a way is disrespectful to the unity and community that we struggled to forge and uphold. that starts to apply to people who weren't so involved earlier once they agree to it.

and yet, at the end of the day, it's a free internet. you can go and post where you like. so can Jackal. I'd rather he not be a part of both boards, but I'd also not like to see him leave this site for good if he decided he really did want to post on the other one and couldn't feel free to post on both.

so, let's give it a day or so to see what folks have to say on monday (weekends are usually a bad time to try and resolve this sort of thing, as lots of people only check the boards from work) and see if sentiment might change a bit given we know who we're talking about now.

The main problem, as I see it, is that the ones we called trolls (and worse things) that are now 'regulars' on the old board would, more or less instantly, jump on any one of 'us' if we came back. I mean, they already did it once, but from another board.

They WILL see it as an act of aggresion, no matter whom of us it is that goes back, because we are the bad guys in their eyes. Or maybe we're the good guys against their own baddness.

Anyhow, posting there would be equal to standing in a paddock full of bulls waving a red sheet. No matter if they have a mod or not, they'll see posting at 'their' board as an inviation to come posting here, and most of us don't want that. At least I don't think they do.

I like to think that I can see both sides to this, I mean, that board was the first online community I ever joined, it holds a special place to me. But also, that community moved here now, we gave our home up but WE are still the same. At least I hope we are, if we aren't, this is a lost cause anytways.

I confess to visiting the old boards, partly just to look (morbid curiosity and all that) and partly because my stories are still up there, and I hadn't saved all of them on the comp, bad me. But I didn't feel the need to post there, anymore, because none of those people are my 'friends' as it is. All those I counted as 'friends' moved here so...

But this is just my opinion, you are all free to have your own.*





*as long as you remember that my opinion is the best one.

I haven't looked at the old board for months, since last year probably, so I wouldn't even notice if anyone did post on there. I doesn't bother me if anyone wants to post on there. I'd be a bit surprised if any of our core members actually [i:4fa90f4e7c]did[/i:4fa90f4e7c] start posting on there, and I'd probably think of them in a different light because of it because that would mean they aren't the people I thought they were - i.e. people who seperate posting on message boards and their other day to day life, calling the latter 'real life'.

Still, from a purely logical sense, like I said I never look at the other board anyway so the only way this could affect me is if someone came on here to deliberately cause trouble because of what one of our members posted over there, which still doesn't matter from my point of view because they'd still be a troll wherever they came from and for whatever reason.

So I guess I'm saying do whatever you feel like, whatever floats your boat, whatever makes you happy.