Hey KK (),
This may become a controversy, nothing less, nothing more. We were asked for our opinion, and everyone who's been around us knows that when that happens, they'll [i:7b001806d7]get [/i:7b001806d7]opinions. I think that's a good thing. I know you may have bad memories from the past floating on your mind's surface right now, but I don't see a reason to worry.

One of the reasons the Temple has been created is that that way, politics can be discussed, and at the same time the "normal" business can go on.

There's another forum I know where that's not happening, and to an eery extent not happening, if you ask me: Controversial threads get deleted or made accessible for members only after a while, without anybody commenting on it at all. Thus, the whole place looks like a happy la-la land on the surface, even though quite a few members are just as annyoed as they are over here. Unhealthy, I say. I prefer it this way.

I see two possible scenarios. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Either

A) The trolls/abusers on the old board were so incredibly evil people that you would do all in your power to stop any of you founders of this board to socialise with them. In that case the evilness of those trolls and abusers scares me, because it's gotta be a pretty evil bunch to actually make someone try to forbid someone else of visiting certain internet boards. If they're just a little bit evil, I'd probably just recommend people to stay away, to actually forbid someone means you're seriously alarmed about that person's well being should they not follow your recommendation.

B) The founders of this board despises the fact that some of the founders aren't as hostile to the other board as other founders. In that case the founders' pride scares me, because that's not the impression I've gotten from you guys so far.

Now, I realise that I shouldn't be prodding the bad tooth in someone else's mouth, but I couldn't help reading this thread and was a bit alarmed of what I read.

Personally, I hang around here because I enjoy talking to you. I've had a look at the old boards and didn't like it anymore. Too much garbage posts. But I couldn't care less if someone else posted there.

Like I said before, this isn't really my business, but I think perhaps a friendly post explaining what this is all about would ease both my and other newcomers' mind, since I know atleast I can't help reading public posts.

[i:eb9dd710f3]Edit: Well, Hsing posted quicker than me (and it answered some of my questions), but I'll leave my post as it is, to explain what scared me.[/i:eb9dd710f3]

[b:3ce67a4118]On Garner's behalf:[/b:3ce67a4118]
[quote:3ce67a4118]
"I dont think any of the 'founders' are divided on this issue at all. The response has been 'No going back.' from everyone who's been pivitol to this community. We were the ones who suffered, however. People who tried to stay 'neutral' did not, and thus may not care as much. It's worth pointing out, on the day of the official move Jackal posted on the old boards to say that he wasn't going to leave them, and that he felt maybe if some of the 'stronger personalities' left that the place would be more fun. He intended to just come check out this site from time to time.

Well, the old site was a wasteland for a little while, until the moderator came and some of the trolls had to disappear or use new names. During that time, Jackal had indeed been active here, and eventually agreed to stop posting on the old site all together once it was finally driven home that this was a community rule that would apply to him as well. Now the old site isn't a wasteland anymore, not in Jackal's opinion certainly. He asked if he could be exempt from a rule that he never willingly agreed to in the first place. He was told that such an exemption wouldn't be officially granted and that taking it upon himself would displease a lot of us.

He did it anyway. So, what? What happens now? Do we ban Jackal from posting, do we say he's a horrible person who'll danger your children's safety? Will he come in the night to steal all your potatos and take them back to feed to his army of leprachaun soldiers? No. He can post where he wants, and there's nothing to stop him from posting 'there' as well as 'here'. He's never been part of the 'community' in the way that Doors or Buzzfloyd or even Tonyblack and Dragonmother were. All we are is an audience for his novel or guide to pratchett works. If that's how he wants it, then fine.

That's really the end all/be all of the situation. Jackal wanted to know if he could leave the 'community' and just be a fringe poster. He certainly can. For that matter, if Doors decided he wanted to go back and post on the old site, the same would really have to apply. I think it would hurt a lot more if Doors did it, it'd feel more like a betrayal instead of just a disappointment, and I'd serriously have to wonder if I still knew him as well as I thought - but that's a bridge I don't think we're ever going to cross.

In the years to come, I'm sure we'll have plenty of people become core memebers of the community who never saw a post by Juggicide first hand. I bet a lot of people here have no idea who Kelly was. Those old fights won't matter to them, and ultimately they don't even matter to those of us who were involved in them anymore, except that they gave us the community standards we all live by, and they gave birth to the 'us or them' divisions. If you weren't there at the time, no one expects you to understand or to sign up with 'us' about this. No one's asking you to wear lilacs in your hair on a certain day. But if someone tries to sit at our table as our friend, and then tries to sit at the table of people they know are enemies to us, they must accept that they may never be welcome to share our food again." [/quote:3ce67a4118]

Thanks Garner, that answered more of my questions. :-) On that note, are there any written/unwritten rules I'm expected to follow as a newcomer, besides the obvious to behave maturely?

[quote:7b7399e1f6="KaptenKaries"]Thanks Garner, that answered more of my questions. :-) On that note, are there any written/unwritten rules I'm expected to follow as a newcomer, besides the obvious to behave maturely?[/quote:7b7399e1f6]

That's obvious ? :oops:

[quote:eda1dd2fc2="Katcal"]That's obvious ?[/quote:eda1dd2fc2]

Does my behaviour suggest otherwise?

[b:bae3db0aa7]Posted on Garner's behalf:[/b:bae3db0aa7]
[quote:bae3db0aa7]

"We'd talked about some sort of list of rules or guidelines or similar... it kind of got forgotten about for a time, i fear.

Dos: Act maturely, responsibly, and with honesty towards your fellow boardanians. Give Garner money.
Don'ts: Act like a jerk, throw a fit if you get in trouble, or annoy the crap out of everyone else. Unless you're Garner.

that'll do for a short term guideline."[/quote:bae3db0aa7]

[quote:e44cf1d716="KaptenKaries"][quote:e44cf1d716="Katcal"]That's obvious ?[/quote:e44cf1d716]
Does my behaviour suggest otherwise?[/quote:e44cf1d716]
Of course not, I was referring only to my own stupidity Having a feathered hat and a parrot on your shoulder leaves no doubt on your maturity, only grown up pirates get those !

thanks to hsing and benolium for all their hard work as message slaves.

[quote:4300b54241="Hsing"][b:4300b54241]On Garner's behalf:[/b:4300b54241]
[quote:4300b54241]
"I dont think any of the 'founders' are divided on this issue at all. The response has been 'No going back.' from everyone who's been pivitol to this community. We were the ones who suffered, however. People who tried to stay 'neutral' did not, and thus may not care as much. It's worth pointing out, on the day of the official move Jackal posted on the old boards to say that he wasn't going to leave them, and that he felt maybe if some of the 'stronger personalities' left that the place would be more fun. He intended to just come check out this site from time to time.

Well, the old site was a wasteland for a little while, until the moderator came and some of the trolls had to disappear or use new names. During that time, Jackal had indeed been active here, and eventually agreed to stop posting on the old site all together once it was finally driven home that this was a community rule that would apply to him as well. Now the old site isn't a wasteland anymore, not in Jackal's opinion certainly. He asked if he could be exempt from a rule that he never willingly agreed to in the first place. He was told that such an exemption wouldn't be officially granted and that taking it upon himself would displease a lot of us.

He did it anyway. So, what? What happens now? Do we ban Jackal from posting, do we say he's a horrible person who'll danger your children's safety? Will he come in the night to steal all your potatos and take them back to feed to his army of leprachaun soldiers? No. He can post where he wants, and there's nothing to stop him from posting 'there' as well as 'here'. He's never been part of the 'community' in the way that Doors or Buzzfloyd or even Tonyblack and Dragonmother were. All we are is an audience for his novel or guide to pratchett works. If that's how he wants it, then fine.

That's really the end all/be all of the situation. Jackal wanted to know if he could leave the 'community' and just be a fringe poster. He certainly can. For that matter, if Doors decided he wanted to go back and post on the old site, the same would really have to apply. I think it would hurt a lot more if Doors did it, it'd feel more like a betrayal instead of just a disappointment, and I'd serriously have to wonder if I still knew him as well as I thought - but that's a bridge I don't think we're ever going to cross.[/quote:4300b54241][/quote:4300b54241]

Okay, I've just read a very honest account of my past stance on this & the old board. For sure, I was reluctant to leave the old board when everyone else did (like some more members). I had hoped that things could be smoothed out, alas, I finally gave into the truth of the matter.

[quote:4300b54241]People who tried to stay 'neutral' did not, and thus may not care as much.[/quote:4300b54241]

To say that I didn't care as much to what happened with the trolls is incorrect; I simply try to stay out of arguments, to avoid fuelling the fire. That's just my personality; I avoid conflict in real like situtations also.

So yes, I have been here, on this board, practically since the start & have never regretted it, since everyone here, especially the older members, have created a board to be proud of.

My recent comment was that the old board was now somewhat better (since those dark days last year where spamming reached critical mass); not cured, but on the way to it.
I see now that the time has not come to post on the old board. I do admit to posting on it 3 or 4 times over the past couple of days but think it's now out of my system!


[quote:4300b54241]He's never been part of the 'community' in the way that Doors or Buzzfloyd or even Tonyblack and Dragonmother were. All we are is an audience for his novel or guide to pratchett works. If that's how he wants it, then fine.[/quote:4300b54241]

The above comment is perhaps the worst anyone has ever said to me on this board.
When everyone was on the old site, I literally checked it up every day for 5 years. Since moving here, nothing has changed. I'm still here all the time.
I thought I was accepted as a longstanding group member. Perhaps since I don't post as much as others, it leaves people into thinking I'm not fully fledged into the 'community'.

As for the comment on my posting my novel: lots of members post their stuff to get feedback from people they respect. It isn't for self-gratification, as you seem to imply.

I also hope that people have garnered (no pun; I like the word!) benefit from the Ultimate Guide. The list in itself, I feel, has been a community effort; though I'm proud of it.


So what now? I have decided to never post on the old board again, without general consensus from the board that the time has come & the old board has become fit to immerse ourselves in. Although, that day may never come I fear.
I would also like to apologise to anyone whom I may have offended by my recent behaviour.

-Barry

[quote:f680dde7d1="Katcal"][quote:f680dde7d1="KaptenKaries"][quote:f680dde7d1="Katcal"]That's obvious ?[/quote:f680dde7d1]
Does my behaviour suggest otherwise?[/quote:f680dde7d1]
Of course not, I was referring only to my own stupidity Having a feathered hat and a parrot on your shoulder leaves no doubt on your maturity, only grown up pirates get those ![/quote:f680dde7d1]

You can borrow mine, if you like. It's a bit loud though, I think I might go deaf on my left ear.

That's ok, I can wear it on my right shoulder, I'm already deaf in that ear...

[quote:91236b6cfa="TheJackal"]
[quote:91236b6cfa]He's never been part of the 'community' in the way that Doors or Buzzfloyd or even Tonyblack and Dragonmother were. All we are is an audience for his novel or guide to pratchett works. If that's how he wants it, then fine.[/quote:91236b6cfa]

The above comment is perhaps the worst anyone has ever said to me on this board.
When everyone was on the old site, I literally checked it up every day for 5 years. Since moving here, nothing has changed. I'm still here all the time.
I thought I was accepted as a longstanding group member. Perhaps since I don't post as much as others, it leaves people into thinking I'm not fully fledged into the 'community'.

As for the comment on my posting my novel: lots of members post their stuff to get feedback from people they respect. It isn't for self-gratification, as you seem to imply.
[/quote:91236b6cfa]

It's a matter of re-evaluation, Jackal. People are judged by their actions. You decided to post the remainder of your novel on the old boards, even though there was no real reason to do so. That implies self-publishing. If you go for self-publishing there, then one must then assume that you are here for the same reason. That may be a wrong conclusion, but it's a reasonable one to reach nontheless.

For myself, I had no reason to consider you anything other than a fully fledged member of the community up until this thread. You were afraid that people would think less of you if you posted on the old boards, yet you didn't treat that seriously enough. Re-evaluation is inevitable, because people can't help how they feel.

But I think a second re-evaluation can, and will occur. For the better. It's up to you, Jackal, and up to what you do.