I agree with a lot of what you've said and you make some very interesting observations, but I'm not sure Pratchett's message is that grim.

He does criticise the way we use stories, but I don't think he wants to paint a bleak picture of stories. After all, stories are what he uses. The narrative force is what binds the Discworld together. For me personally, the point was more that what we often forget what lies behind the stories. The reason for them, the purpose they served, the time in which they were conceived.

I saw this in the greedy kid fixated on presents and all the rituals (singing carols, christmas trees etc.) that have somehow usurped what they were built up around. All these rituals are after all only concrete representations of the focus on family unity and generosity.

I think Hogfather is Pratchett's way of asking us to look at the stories in our lives from a new perspective.

I do, however, think there is a sense in which his answer is that humanity as it is today, as exemplified by Teatime, is not capable of appreciating the unassuming charity in some of those stories. He does, to some extent, the validity of our tendency to deem some stories naive.

I can't help but ultimately come to the conclusion that the fear-driven legends and myths we surround ourselves with are more symbols of what we as a race have become than they are actual stories.

I am afraid I've started rambling now, but that tends to happen when I triy to wrap my mind around interesting questions. I must re-read this book some time.

Other references: the Scissorhands (Governess) is from a famous German children's book called Struwwelpeter (about 100 years old)... All moralistic fables, full of illustrated horror: the girl who played with matches burnt up & all that was left were her shoes & two crying cats; the boy who wouldn't eat his soup & wasted away & died with a soup tureen on his grave, etc. And of course the man with the huge shears who cut off the children's fingers when they wouldn't cut their nails--pics of blood pouring from their hands amongst the lopped-off fingers... Not a bit heartwarming.

I agree that Hogfather is one of the darker books but I absolutely loved it. It attempts to explore what it is that makes us human--and there is darkness there, after all. But reaching for light! And them stinkin' hogs were a hoot!

One last thing about Andersen: ALL of his stories were dark too. Existential, in a way. Consider the Little Fir Tree, which burns up at the end. Or the Toy Soldier with his broken heart, or the Little Mermaid, who DIES at the end with no soul, having traded her immortality (fie upon Disney for changing THAT story!).

Maybe one of the reasons the "Hogfather" is so dark is because of Pratchett's own beliefs? A devout atheist, I believe he said. Something about how the "magic dies and you begin to see the Christmas tradition only through the eyes of commercialism". Hence, the dark and, at times, almost oppressive atmosphere.

Now, don't get me wrong! I ain't no "headbangin' bible basher" and the "Hogfather" is one of my favorites BECAUSE it's so dark!! Teatime is one of my favorite characters (I was sad when he died, but understand why he had to). Maybe some sympathy for the devil? Mr. Teatime always reminds me of "Alex" in "A Clockwork Orange" for some reason.

Now, I love to be made to think about things. I just wonder how much Pratchett's own beliefs (especially regarding Christmas) influenced this novel. Hell, he could probably write a dark novel about the "Smurfs" if he wanted to!

Also, it made me shudder when someone said to Teatime. "You were probably the kind of little boy who used to look up dolls skirts!" Eeek!!! I used to do that when I was a little boy!!! My sisters Barbie was very attractive when I was 8 years old! Maybe time for a glass eyeball?
-------------------------------------


"I'm a just a moomin on a mission"

Hogfather is a book that is centred around Christmas but can be read at any time in the year. it is a witty and cleverly written book (just like always) and my all time Favourite.
As DEATH quite rightly says, "HUMANS ARE SO FACINATING OUT OF ALL THE WONDERS IN THE WORLD THEY HAVE MANAGED TO CREATE BOARDOM."

Hey,reading this I FINALLY(for sure this time) realized that it WAS The Hogfather I read first,not Interesting Times. That's been bugging me for years,trying to remember that

It was actualy because I watched the hogfather TV adaptation that I started reading the books.

I may be a Cromwell Girl by nature, And a witch by heart.
But I learn all I need learn, That how I get so smart.