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[Cynical_Youth]

Originally Posted by Orrdos

I don't doubt for a second that you're defending her off her own volition. However, she should have been aware that by flouncing off, it'd leave you a bit in the firing line, and that you'd feel compelled to speak up.

We've discussed that from the start between ourselves. Regardless, that is for us to deal with.

Originally Posted by Orrdos

I do have to say though, the woodwork?

What?

I've been here for more years that I can remember, I've known Mal for all those years and I moderate the thing. It's not like I never post except to leap out and strike down the rude people of the world. I also post about my comic.

I'm not saying you're not part of the community. You have a right to post here. I'm indicating that to people who you don't socialise with actively, that is the impression created.

The fact that you're both part of the community doesn't mean you know each other.

Originally Posted by Orrdos

And yes, it is an issue about apologising. Regardless of how she feels about what I and others said, she is aware she hurt Mal. Yet, instead of saying this before going off, she blames us for stopping her, somehow. I don't recall hacking off her fingers, so I'm sure she could have said it on her way out.

She's not blaming you for stopping her. She acknowledges that she should have apologised.

[Orrdos]

No, what you're saying is that because I don't "know" andalusian, I should keep it buttoned when she's being rude.

Well, no. I'm not prepared to do that.

Also, she said "If the response had limited itself to pointing that out, I would have happily apologised and explained that I had an absolutely awful day."

In other words, because of what was said, she just buggered off and didn't apologise. Not even in her last post.

Which is weak.

[Cynical_Youth]

We both felt it was important to get this posted:

"I'm sorry Mal. What I posted was overly harsh and devoid of anything useful. I was having a completely crappy day, though that doesn't excuse it in the least. I felt fairly quilty after I posted it - I know the time and effort that you put into this (as someone who has done web design themselves). I was going to retract the post and apologise when I woke up that morning, but by then it felt like a flame-war had started."

[Delphine]

Ok, a few things.

I did not respond to what Adele said for ANY OTHER REASON than the fact that I thought her post was out of line. Even after all this, after all the long explanations and exploration of feelings, I still do.

I wanted to say that (to use a much needed disclaimer when Adele is involved), in my opinion, her post was rude. Her points could have been portrayed in a much more productive and considerate way. I honestly can't think of a reason why she didn't think a bit more before she posted it.

If you are going to say "Why should I compromise the way I express my opinions?" you have to acknowledge the fact that if the things you say are rude, people are going to object. It's pretty obvious that it's not going to endear you to people.

It was precisely Adele's tone that irritated me, Coppe. That's why I responded to it.

Saying that Doors, Chris and I pick on Adele is ridiculous. Obviously the conclusion that myself and Doors only ever, ever, ever in the history of the universe have posted personal attacks against Adele is based on... one previous thread. A thread about music, for discussion. As has been pointed out, it has eerie parallels with this thread. Me and Doors disagreed with Adele. She got annoyed and left. I think Adele disliked both of us for that thread. So, should we have held our tongues, months and months later, on an issue that I would definitely have posted about had it been somebody else saying it?

This is a message board, where other people *will* join in with their opinions. Should we limit them to maybe two opinions per person per week? To make sure nobody feels vicitimised? No saving them up for malicious en masse attacks now, people! And never disagree with anyone else more than once.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I stand by what I said.


Edit: Oh, I just saw up there that Adele did apologise. I just wanted to acknowledge it after this post, because I didn't see the apology before I posted it. I would have been less annoyed had I seen it. It's just what was needed right at the start of this mess.

[Cynical_Youth]

Originally Posted by Orrdos

No, what you're saying is that because I don't "know" andalusian, I should keep it buttoned when she's being rude.

Well, no. I'm not prepared to do that.

Then you should take responsibility for the impression you create.

Originally Posted by Orrdos

Also, she said "If the response had limited itself to pointing that out, I would have happily apologised and explained that I had an absolutely awful day."

In other words, because of what was said, she just buggered off and didn't apologise. Not even in her last post.

She left because she felt it had escalated beyond that. She didn't want to go through the music thread ordeal again.

Originally Posted by Orrdos

Which was weak.

Can we keep the tone civil?

[Cynical_Youth]

Originally Posted by Delphine

Ok, a few things.

I did not respond to what Adele said for ANY OTHER REASON than the fact that I thought her post was out of line. Even after all this, after all the long explanations and exploration of feelings, I still do.

I never said you intended to do anything else. Again, impressions.

Originally Posted by Delphine

I wanted to say that (to use a much needed disclaimer when Adele is involved), in my opinion, her post was rude.

Again, is this necessary?

Originally Posted by Delphine

Her points could have been portrayed in a much more productive and considerate way. I honestly can't think of a reason why she didn't think a bit more before she posted it.

If you are going to say "Why should I compromise the way I express my opinions?" you have to acknowledge the fact that if the things you say are rude, people are going to object. It's pretty obvious that it's not going to endear you to people.

All acknowledged.

Originally Posted by Delphine

Saying that Doors, Chris and I pick on Adele is ridiculous. Obviously the conclusion that myself and Doors only ever, ever, ever in the history of the universe have posted personal attacks against Adele is based on... one previous thread. A thread about music, for discussion. As has been pointed out, it has eerie parallels with this thread. Me and Doors disagreed with Adele. She got annoyed and left. I think Adele disliked both of us for that thread. So, should we have held our tongues, months and months later, on an issue that I would definitely have posted about had it been somebody else saying it?

Again, I never said you were picking on Adele. Yes, I think so. I think criticism should come from people who have an interest in seeing that person's behaviour change. Otherwise it's one-sided interaction and you create this impression.

Originally Posted by Delphine

This is a message board, where other people *will* join in with their opinions. Should we limit them to maybe two opinions per person per week? To make sure nobody feels vicitimised? No saving them up for malicious en masse attacks now, people! And never disagree with anyone else more than once.

This whole thing is ridiculous. I stand by what I said.

There is a lot of ridicule here that I don't think is necessary.

I'd like to discuss this in a civil way. Please?

[Orrdos]

Hang on, i should take responsibility for what impression I make.

Honestly, the mind boggles. This entire argument comes from andalusian not taking responsibilty for her actions, and you're telling ME i should take for mine?

...

I should really laugh about it. Look, I'm not the one that's bailed out after posting something that someones taking umbridge with. I'd have my own parachute if I did that.

The ordeal!?

Coppe, come on. It was hardly an ordeal. An ordeal is "any extremely severe or trying test, experience, or trial."

This was some people disagreeing over a song. Hardly the tasks of hercules.

And lastly, I said it was weak. I wouldn't say that's the worst word I have in my lexicon.

[Cynical_Youth]

Yes, I'm telling you that you should take responsibility. Perhaps it's not an ordeal for you, but you've severely hurt someone a couple of times.

You can acknowledge that and apologise or you can recognise that by not doing that you're dismissing someone.

[Orrdos]

and yes, it's great she's finally got someone to post an apology on her behalf, It's just a few pages too late really.

[Cynical_Youth]

It doesn't have to be the worst word, Doors. It's all negativity I would like to do without.

[Cynical_Youth]

Originally Posted by Orrdos

and yes, it's great she's finally got someone to post an apology on her behalf, It's just a few pages too late really.

There was never any intent to leave the apology out. It just happened that way. We have acknowledged that it should have been posted then.

[Orrdos]

Coppe, I'll apologise if I really think it warrants an apology. I have apologised several times in the past, to various people.

I've apologised twice today even, which is possibly some sort of record.

What I won't apologise for, is calling someone rude when they were. When everyone knows they were, including the person themselves.

I don't even think what I said was exactly harsh, unfair or rude. Indeed, I can't imagine many people would be horrendously crushed by it.

[Cynical_Youth]

Originally Posted by Orrdos

Coppe, I'll apologise if I really think it warrants an apology. I have apologised several times in the past, to various people.

I've apologised twice today even, which is possibly some sort of record.

I'm not arguing that you don't apologise to people.

Originally Posted by Orrdos

What I won't apologise for, is calling someone rude when they were. When everyone knows they were, including the person themselves.

You did it in a way, that I think, was unwarranted. You did it in a way that created the impression that you had a strong dislike for someone and that made them feel persecuted.

Originally Posted by Orrdos

I don't even think what I said was exactly harsh, unfair or rude. Indeed, I can't imagine many people would be horrendously crushed by it.

You hurt someone. It doesn't matter what you think about it. You can acknowledge that and apologise or you can dismiss it.

[Maljonic]

Originally Posted by Cynical_Youth

We both felt it was important to get this posted:

"I'm sorry Mal. What I posted was overly harsh and devoid of anything useful. I was having a completely crappy day, though that doesn't excuse it in the least. I felt fairly quilty after I posted it - I know the time and effort that you put into this (as someone who has done web design themselves). I was going to retract the post and apologise when I woke up that morning, but by then it felt like a flame-war had started."

Acknowledged.

To be honest I'm quite surprised that you, Andalusian, don't feel part of the group as much as some of the others. I've thought of you as one of the core members for a long time now, and assumed most other people do too. In fact it's obvious that they do otherwise there wouldn't be such a big hooha over you leaving, and this lengthy debate. I don't think it would have gone on this long if everyone thought you were a nobody.

[Orrdos]

Yes, ok, keep attacking me. It's easy to do I suppose. I'm trying my best to keep my posts vaguely humorous in places, but you don't seem to be picking up on it, or you're choosing not to.

I am at a loss as to when this thread suddenly became about hurt feelings of poor, blameless andalusian though.

A basic principal of society is that actions have consequences. She was rude, she got pulled up on it.

Is it my fault she chooses to completely overblow it?

Where does it end, exactly? In my mind, she gave Mals personal feelings no consideration at all, so it's a bit rich to then get all upset when you THINK someone does the exact same to you.

It is, and excuse my french, a big pile of bollocks.

That is hypocracy, at it's finest.