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[Cynical_Youth]

She left because she didn't want to deal with their responses any more.

[Maljonic]

Anyway... I've been struggling with the forum login integration with the main site all week and it's finally working how it should, thanks to a different bit of software that I actually bought on Saturday (only £10) but didn't arrive until today.

You can now login on the front page or from the forums and be logged into both either way. Before I was having to remove the forum login (and registration) to get it anywhere near working right with the last bit of software.

There is also an infinitely better latest posts module on the main site, if you click the date it takes you to the latest post.

[Tephlon]

We seem to have a higher rate of Spam lately (as in 3 spam posts in the last 4 days.)

I know this might have to do with the fact that Mal is still putting everything together, but I'll repeat my suggestion of some sort of Captcha (vBulletin calls it "Image Verification") or other "distinguish human from 'bot"-technology anyway.

There are several ways, including some fields that are clearly labeled "Do not enter anything in this field or you won't be signed up" or (And I liked this one) a checkbox that says: "If you are not a bot please do not check this checkbox."

Captcha's can be rather annoying (I know readability can be an issue) but
we could limit them to the sign up process only.
There are some message boards that either do not allow you to post right away or have you use captcha's for the first (or first five) posts.

Research on the vBulletin boards came up with these two: NoSpam! Question and Enhanced Image Verification ( -> here's an example of Enhanced Image Verification. Very elegant solution)

Thoughts?

[KaptenKaries]

Originally Posted by Tephlon

... (And I liked this one) a checkbox that says: "If you are not a bot please do not check this checkbox."
...
Thoughts?

With a checkbox like that I would never had succeeded in signing up. Double negations make my brain melt.

[Maljonic]

The problems, that are now fixed, that I mentioned in my last post included not using the vBulletin registration with captcha.

All registrations now go through the vBulletin registration system with a captcha, or image verification.

[Tephlon]

True, there are some issues with non native english speakers with that one...

I liked the Enhanced Image Verification better anyway.
The NoSpam! Question does allow you to put in your own questions, so they could easily be Discworld related. Unfortunately that one is also harder for non-native english speakers or dyslexics.

(Oh great, I'm undermining my own points now... )

[Tephlon]

Oops, I hadn't seen that Mal. Sorry.

Edit: Also because I took about 45 minutes to write that post and there was a lot of cross posting.. .-)

[KaptenKaries]

Originally Posted by KaptenKaries

With a checkbox like that I would never had succeeded in signing up. Double negations make my brain melt.

Originally Posted by Tephlon

True, there are some issues with non native english speakers with that one...

I'm sure you don't mean that it's my english comprehension that's not sufficient.

[KaptenKaries]

On the subject of criticism, constructive and otherwise. A while ago, Kat, me and Pixel expressed our wish for icons to be easier to distinguish from eachother.

I felt that our suggestions was responded to with a bit hard tone. I made a long explanatory post where I tried to further make myself clear on what I meant. I apologized for being unclear and having caused anger amongst those who misunderstood me.

I never did see anyone responding to what I had written. No "apology accepted". No "sorry for being a bit hard on you". Not even a "go screw yourself, you bloody peacemonger".

I was sad when I saw the first replies to what I attempted to be a way to help Mal. I was even sadder when I realised that my attempt at making myself clear went completely unnoticed, or worse, was ignored.

I am getting deja vu now. I'm not angry with anyone now and I wasn't back then either. But I think everyone can improve on their diplomacy skills.

I try to remember not to post while angry or emotionally upset, and that trick works for me most of the time. I've also learnt that I don't have to win every fight. Folding down is an option. Knowing when to choose defeat is a key for my social interaction. I also think that being able to forgive wrongdoings is important.

[Cynical_Youth]

Thank you for that post, KK. I feel quite lost at the moment and your post really grounded things.

I think that was definitely at play here.

Andalusian feels like she's been criticised heavily a couple of times (to the point where she feels persecuted) mostly because it is the only response she gets from some. She can handle criticism, but if it's relentless then it only really comes across as blatant dislike.

Note: she does honestly feel that way. We've talked it through thoroughly and I now know what I'm talking about...

I completely misinterpreted her. I'm afraid I really complicated things trying to clarify her position.

We both just want the whole argument to be over.

Added: Decided there was no point beating about the bush, really:

Doors, Ella & CJ: We both know that you don't like Adele (and probably me not that much either). That's fine and you don't need to. If the way you do communicate with her, however, is to criticise her en masse, the community begins to feel very hostile.

It's now at a point where I know she's not coming back. She doesn't want to lose the friendships she's made here, but she doesn't want to get that hurt again.

I don't expect you to think her response is justified, but I hope you can recognise how you may have created the circumstances for it.

Maybe this could be a start for some sort of healthier dialogue.

[chrisjordan]

Originally Posted by Cynical_Youth

Doors, Ella & CJ: We both know that you don't like Adele (and probably me not that much either). That's fine and you don't need to. If the way you do communicate with her, however, is to criticise her en masse, the community begins to feel very hostile.

It's now at a point where I know she's not coming back. She doesn't want to lose the friendships she's made here, but she doesn't want to get that hurt again.

I don't expect you to think her response is justified, but I hope you can recognise how you may have created the circumstances for it.

Maybe this could be a start for some sort of healthier dialogue.

I don't like the way Andalusian has spoken to people, but I don't know her well enough to like her or dislike her either way. As for yourself, I've never had a problem with you. I still don't. I may not agree with everything you say, but you seem pretty levelheaded to me. Please don't assume I don't like you because of our disagreements here.

But if someone posts something I feel the need to object to, I'll object. Every one of my posts in this thread, bar the first one, has been a response to a post of your own. It's not like the three of us have met up to synchronise our watches and then bombard the thread, and in fact Ella has only posted once, so if you're going to level that criticism at Doors and I, at least leave her out of it.

If more than one person shares the same opinion, that doesn't mean we're ganging up on anybody by posting. The three of us are good friends, so I see how it could seem like that, but in the end the reason we're good friends in the first place is because we're likeminded people, so there are going to be times when we all feel the same way.

And once again, I'd like to point out that hostility came from both sides.

It's perfectly understandable if Andalusian doesn't want to stick around now. Just by the sheer amount this has been discussed, it has all been blown way out of proportion. But when you've posted with your point of view (or your interpretation of Andalusian's), I've felt the need respond, so I have done. I've only ever posted what I feel needed to be said. If I've merely repeated the same thing somebody else has already given, or if I've come across as overly hostile, I apologise. The event that sparked all this really isn't worth the bitter feelings now, and I think people on both sides of the argument have overreacted.

[Cynical_Youth]

Originally Posted by chrisjordan

I don't like the way Andalusian has spoken to people, but I don't know her well enough to like her or dislike her either way. As for yourself, I've never had a problem with you. I still don't. I may not agree with everything you say, but you seem pretty levelheaded to me. Please don't assume I don't like you because of our disagreements here.

Fair enough, I don't have a problem with you either. It just seemed like a way to clear the air.

Originally Posted by chrisjordan

It's perfectly understandable if Andalusian doesn't want to stick around now. Just by the sheer amount this has been discussed, it has all been blown way out of proportion. But when you've posted with your point of view (or your interpretation of Andalusian's), I've felt the need respond, so I have done. I've only ever posted what I feel needed to be said. If I've merely repeated the same thing somebody else has already given, or if I've come across as overly hostile, I apologise. The event that sparked all this really isn't worth the bitter feelings now, and I think people on both sides of the argument have overreacted.

I certainly don't want to imply that you were ganging up on her, just that it is experienced that way. I think the 'timing of the watches' image illustrates aptly how ridiculous that would be.

It's important to realise, however, that for someone who doesn't know that many people on the boards well (and that was certainly true the first time this arose), being in a conflict with a couple of established board members can feel very isolating.

You have a right to respond, but you also have a responsibility for what image you present to someone. You can choose to only respond to someone's negative posts, but there's still a choice there. You still choose to be critical.

I don't mean to say that you need to go around replying to someone's posts to be able to criticise them. I mean that if you choose not to socialise with someone, then do so. Don't just jump on the negative side. It then does not affect you.

When you criticise someone, you're tacitly assuming that you have an interest in changing their behaviour. In order to justify that assumption, their actions have to affect you.

I'd compare it to going to another community and criticising someone there. Your criticism may be valid, but it's still uncalled for. Within a community, in the groups of a community, I think that can work the same way.

Btw, I didn't mean to lump Doors, Ella and you together. It just seemed strange to indicate who I was addressing in graduations. These are broadly the parties involved, but it's not a line in the sand along which we have to line up and pelt each other with stones (or poo, if preferred).

[KaptenKaries]

Originally Posted by Cynical_Youth

It's important to realise, however, that for someone who doesn't know that many people on the boards well (and that was certainly true the first time this arose), being in a conflict with a couple of established board members can feel very isolating.

You have a right to respond, but you also have a responsibility for what image you present to someone. You can choose to only respond to someone's negative posts, but there's still a choice there. You still choose to be critical.

This describes pretty well the feelings and thoughts I had of the post I mentioned earlier.

[Orrdos]

Oh, for gods sake.

I honestly don't dislike andalusian. based on the evidence I've got from this thread, I can't say I'm a huge fan either, but I certainly have no great dislike of her either.

She only ever gets grief from me and ella?

Fuck off. That's all I can really say to that.

You know, I went back and read that music thread again, to see if we really did descend on her pack style.

And shockingly, no. No we did not.

Infact, she once again threw a tantrum. Spit out the dummy because she didn't like what someone said. No one made a personal comment about her at all, we had a disagreement on a song. A difference of OPINION.

I noted a severe lack of "andalusian! you've a fucking moron for thinking that!" posts.

I note a lack of "hey, adele, you smell of manure for not liking supermassive blackhole!" posts.

What I did see was opinions. For gods sake, if she cant differentiate between an opinion on a song and a personal attack, she's going to have problems.

For the record, here's the music thread, where I made that first scathing attack on her, then ella, Cj and ben continued to rip into her.

Draw your own conclusions.

I should also note, that I swallowed back my own feelings on her horrendous overeaction to make a post to try and stop her leaving, on request of coppe.

Coppe, I do appreciate you're not in a great position. I also don't dislike you. Infact, quite the opposite.

I am slightly agog that andalusian thinks me and ella only ever attack her. I'm used to that sort of accusation, but ella?

Well, I've done my best to explain why I think andalusian was out of order on this thread, in the music thread and why I think she's just plain wrong in thinking me and ella have some sort of vendetta against her.

Oh well.

[Orrdos]

KK, I had a look at that thread you linked to. To be honest, I was a bit peeved at the time of writing it, and I stand by the comment about the huge arrows being a giveaway. I did try and lighten the tone a bit with the dog vision man comment, which made at least one person laugh.

However, I can see how it could be a bit harsh, so i will offer my apologies for that